Cheapest new car ever, 2cyl, 33hp, 50 mpg! (Tata Nano)

[Arragonis]

Not sure about the 3 stud ones - I suspect they are small and narrow enough for any extra 'meat' needed to be countered. These universal ones though



Are quite heavy.

As for the Nano itself they missed the point by not going FWD and engine at the front. Its more stable that a rear one especially in such a light, tall car in a sidewind ?

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

As for the Nano itself they missed the point by not going FWD and engine at the front. Its more stable that a rear one especially in such a light, tall car in a sidewind ?

Is this a question?

As statement, I don't see enough supporting details in all of the internets to give it alot of merit.

As question, my answer would be "no"... F/F arrangements aren't any more stable in x-winds than any other arrangement would be, EXCEPT with minor consideration to weight distribution in some platforms.

Point is, a barn isn't slicing through trhe air, regardless of which of the cows' feet are pushing it...

M/R platforms are typically better balanced, however, and can handle curbed and odd retain better than other platforms, because the single largest weight (potential operator not included in assessment) is placed laterally, and low within the cage, close to center.

That's my take, anyway.

[Christ]

A single lug not centered creates unevenly distributed forces. Chances are, it would not hold even as much as two lugs, spaced from center evenly, half each of the original size.

Three is the minimum for a concentric pattern.

In order for the three lug pattern to be as potentially strong as a similarly spaced 4 lug pattern, the lugs themselves would need to be stronger. Not the wheel, just the studs. Possibly the nuts, too. I doubt its much of an issue, though, when you consider that the studs from my 1988 HONDA CIVIC were the same diameter/grade used in some light trucks (F series? Don't remember what I put them in, bit they fit perfectly, if not a tad short).

Frankly, spacing the 3 lugs further apart can actually make them capable of holding more than a tight 4 lug pattern could, just on the degraded mechanical advantage that the wheel would have over the studs with a wider pattern.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by Christ

Is this a question?

As statement, I don't see enough supporting details in all of the internets to give it alot of merit.

As question, my answer would be "no"... F/F arrangements aren't any more stable in x-winds than any other arrangement would be, EXCEPT with minor consideration to weight distribution in some platforms.

Point is, a barn isn't slicing through trhe air, regardless of which of the cows' feet are pushing it...

M/R platforms are typically better balanced, however, and can handle curbed and odd retain better than other platforms, because the single largest weight (potential operator not included in assessment) is placed laterally, and low within the cage, close to center.

That's my take, anyway.

It was kind of.

From what I have read over the years a forward weight bias tends to be more stable and forgiving in a straight line but more resistance to changes in direction. It does tend to lead to more understeer which is dialed into most road cars (including this one from the tests that are on the web) as it is seen as being more safe for the average driver. Plus using this layout would mean being able to share parts with other F/F cars.

But then again costs don't seem to be an issue here really do they ?

EDIT - I think a discussion of FWD vs RWD, front vs rear engines and of course AWD would be a waste here, both have advantages and disadvantages depending on the design of the vehicle in question.

[Christ]

Ok, I see what you're saying about stability now, and that's correct, because you gain stability by putting cG ahead of cP, iirc.

HOWEVER! There is always a caveat, right?

In the M/R arrangement, the weight is almost always still biased to the front, if not equal (rare, once you add driver/passenger/stuff), and a good amount of under steer can be dialed just by tuning the dynamic alignment of the wheels while turning.

Adjusting brake dive via the stiffness/compensation of the front suspension to compression can also lead to over/under steer, whichever way you take it.

Clearly, there is more to the meal, so to speak, than weight distribution, eh?

Parts swapping: the M/R layout is typically transverse, like a F/F layout, except in the middle of the car, and without steerable knuckles on the drive wheels. Swapping should be pretty straightforward, except for space/packaging concerns.

[deathtrain]

I so want one. I want to give it a nipple and get it a car bra designed like some out of a Victoria secret catalog.

[Arragonis]

Yep - there are always caveats and there are good and poor handling cars of any layout - that needs a seperate thread

I spotted a Leaf at my local dealer near work and was going to 'take a look' and put some impressions here if I could, thought I would look for the promised Tata Europa too - but its not appeared yet - and maybe won't. It could be due to the, er, fire issue...



...which to be fair they say they have fixed.

[theycallmeebryan]

The motor in my Ninja 250 is also about 35 hp, 28 to the wheels. Its a 2 cyl. Its only 250cc though and weighs a heck of a lot less. Why not just transplant a ninja 250 drivetrain into a light car that has better aero and call it a day?

15ftlb of torque to the wheels is enough to move a car.

[Christ]

The ninja motor would need thicker bearings to sustain the load, and incredible gearing to maintain efficient torque.

Also, Kawasaki doesn't build Indian motorcycles.

[guudasitgets]

I like the fire pic