Chemical hydrogen production NOT electrolysis

[razor02097]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I love the idea of e85, so long as it can stand on its own.
Which might be possible now due to all the cheap/evil natural gas we have.

The problem is people typically get 20-25% worse fuel economy on E85 but it usually costs 5-10% less. You will pay more to go less distance with E85.

Ethanol is a great thing. An engine that is made to run on it is very clean and runs cooler than a gasoline equivalent. Flex fuel vehicles can't take advantage of the ethanol. Just because they CAN run on it doesn't mean they are running on it effectively. Lower compression ratio and a conventional fuel system cripples the benefit of running ethanol but still shows all of it's disadvantages.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by razor02097

Ethanol is a great thing. An engine that is made to run on it is very clean and runs cooler than a gasoline equivalent. Flex fuel vehicles can't take advantage of the ethanol. Just because they CAN run on it doesn't mean they are running on it effectively. Lower compression ratio and a conventional fuel system cripples the benefit of running ethanol but still shows all of it's disadvantages.

Yes, we knew this back in 1909.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/0392/report.pdf
104 years old and still valid.
They talk about increasing the compression and altering the carb to dump more fuel into an gas converted to alcohol engine to the point where it wont work with the gasoline any more.
They also mention how a few simple changes can be made to gasoline engines to make them run alcohol but the engines wont run as well as they did on gasoline alone.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by Air-Hybrid

I reckon the problem isn't that governments shouldn't play a role; it's more that they have a nasty habit of listening to marketing men and lobbyists instead of getting their policy advice from unbiased engineers and scientists ( <- not the ones living in the 'academic bubble' though!).

That is the problem that effects everyone, every where no matter what your beliefs maybe or side you are on.

[Air-Hybrid]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

[listening to marketing men and lobbyists instead of getting their policy advice from unbiased engineers and scientists] is the problem that effects everyone, every where no matter what your beliefs maybe or side you are on.

Perhaps, but if that's the case, that supports a drive to improve scientific thinking throughout... one result of which would be voters becoming better informed - Then governments ought to be held more accountable when they are cohered (or bought) by silver-tongued (or deep-pocketed) corporations, etc.
...I can't see how it supports a 'leave it up to the markets' approach.