Chemical hydrogen production NOT electrolysis

[mario.silva]

This is not the scam of hho by electrolysis.

To run efectively a car with hydrogen you need to make A LOT!!!

To make enough hydrogen AND FUEL PRICE COMPETITIVE you can make it with the
Reaction of water and aluminum at 600 Celsius to prevent the protective coating of aluminum oxide that stops the reaction or just add sodium hydroxide to act as catalist and you can make it at room temperature.

Warning: alkine/metals reactions and sodium hydroxide are dangerous.

Anyway, the more the aluminum surface you have, the more reaction you have.
You can put a small system going into your intake and see fuel economy if you take long trip with your foot down. I say this because it's tricky to control the amout of hydrogen being made as start/stop. But you save fuel and the ECU controls the rest of the gasoline/diesel injection needed.

This works more as an add-on in retrofiting a car.

Lots of information on the web for right water/sodium hydroxide/aluminum best ratio.

Interesting Perdue university project with nasa in youtube with their
"Alice rocket". Check it out.


You can read also this white paper from the US departmen of energy here:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...uPLXFy5RVwNkQA

[Air-Hybrid]

Originally Posted by mario.silva

Reaction of water and aluminum at 600 Celsius to prevent the protective coating of aluminum oxide that stops the reaction

If you "prevent" a coating of Al Oxide forming then no reaction has taken place!

In addition, have you any idea how much energy it takes to free aluminium from its mineral oxides, like bauxite? - A damn sight more than you'll ever get back by using it to strip oxygen atoms of water molecules! ... so, at best you have a rather inefficient battery here.

Conclusion: so far as drivers saving fuel (or resources, or the the planet), this belongs in the Unicorn cage!

[razor02097]

So.... you have to superheat water to 6 times it's boiling point first? Sounds like an experiment that should stay in the lab.

[mario.silva]

Originally Posted by razor02097

So.... you have to superheat water to 6 times it's boiling point first? Sounds like an experiment that should stay in the lab.

Heating is the hard and dangerous way of doing it:

Israeli company designs aluminum-powered car engine | Fox News

but it can also be made at room temperature.

Please read the US department of energy link.

Regards!

[mario.silva]

Heating is the hard and dangerous way of doing it:

Israeli company designs aluminum-powered car engine | Fox News

but it can also be made at room temperature.

Please read the US department of energy link.

Regards!

[mario.silva]

you may also like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b7siH1Ausc

[Air-Hybrid]

From DofE paper:
"While aluminum-water reaction systems cannot meet the targets for on-board vehicular hydrogen storage, the use of aluminum as a water splitting agent for generating hydrogen might have utility for non-vehicular applications."
>>So (without reading further), what's the point for cars?


And it's still a rubbish 'battery' at best.

[mario.silva]

You are right, using and controling Hydrogen this way it's difficult and that´s why I wrote this:

"...because it's tricky to control the amout of hydrogen being made as start/stop."
"This works more as an add-on in retrofiting a car."

Not running 100% on hydrogen.

;0)

[razor02097]

My thought is the level of contamination means it would require a larger vessel then you have to figure out amounts of powder to use or a way to remove the powder when it isn't needed.

With electrolysis one can just turn it off. Although HHO has been proven over and over that it takes more energy to run than you can get from the HHO gas...

Maybe the aluminum powder added to the HHO tank could boost the performance enough to actually save fuel... provided the powder isn't expensive...hmmm...

[Air-Hybrid]

For those of us who don't have the time or inclination to read the entire paper, perhaps you can quote/reference the section that explains what advantages there can be for adding 'a large amount' (to paraphrase your first quote) of H2 to the intake air?

So far as I can see, the DofE paper is aimed at H2 production to supply fuel-cells Not IC engines. And, though there might be some evidence that H2 fumigation can slightly offset fuel use (on Gas or Diesel, I can't remember) I don't find any good support for 'destroying' something as valuable as elemental Aluminium to make it.

~ For reference it's been shown that fumigating diesel intakes with low concentrations of Propane has great advantages (and unlike H2 it can be stored indefinitely bought in a local shop).