Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Hypermiling / EcoDriver's Ed
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-05-2015, 02:27 PM   #81 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,428

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 55.44 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 67.41 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,960
Thanked 6,841 Times in 3,553 Posts
niky - thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by niky View Post
...you really feel it when you're banging through the [Mirage's] gears on the racetrack!
And there's something you don't read every day.

__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MetroMPG For This Useful Post:
niky (05-07-2015)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 05-07-2015, 06:11 AM   #82 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philippines
Posts: 2,173
Thanks: 1,739
Thanked 589 Times in 401 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
And there's something you don't read every day.
Having been probably only one of a dozen people who've ever had the Mirage up on two wheels... and lived... you probably won't read it ever again...
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2015, 02:01 PM   #83 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 2,552

Dark Egg - '12 VW Touraeg
Thanks: 266
Thanked 1,136 Times in 775 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
The EPA tests are the same; ie. acceleration is not based on throttle position, but following a speed vs. time trace on a computer screen connected to the dyno.
Do they regulate when to shift the manual or how they decelerate the manual?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2015, 04:44 PM   #84 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,428

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 55.44 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 67.41 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,960
Thanked 6,841 Times in 3,553 Posts
Yes.

And the EPA test shift points are definitely non-eco: no short shifting; no coasting is permitted; and the test (dyno) driver can't shift to top gear once up to cruising speed (if below the top gear threshold). All of which makes it generally easier to beat a manual car's EPA rating by a wider margin than an automatic's rating.

See: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ing-27416.html
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2015, 07:46 AM   #85 (permalink)
Rat Racer
 
Fat Charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Route 16
Posts: 4,150

Al the Third, year four - '13 Honda Fit Base
Team Honda
90 day: 42.9 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,784
Thanked 1,920 Times in 1,246 Posts
Hell, I beat EPA highway by 3.1 mpg this morning with a trailer.

But the kids claim to have proof that ATs are more efficient.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog44 View Post
Transmission type Efficiency
Manual neutral engine off.100% @MPG <----- Fun Fact.
Manual 1:1 gear ratio .......98%
CVT belt ............................88%
Automatic .........................86%

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Fat Charlie For This Useful Post:
PaleMelanesian (05-08-2015)
Old 05-11-2015, 03:14 PM   #86 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philippines
Posts: 2,173
Thanks: 1,739
Thanked 589 Times in 401 Posts
They're dreaming.

The only autos I've seen that are as good as manuals in real world traffic are the self-destructing Honda CVTs that you guys got in the Insight (we had them on our Fits) and the CVT on the Mirage.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 03:35 PM   #87 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,023 Times in 1,304 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by niky View Post
Having been probably only one of a dozen people who've ever had the Mirage up on two wheels... and lived... you probably won't read it ever again...
Last time I had a car on two wheels it was auto crossing a manual trans NX2000. It spent most of the time on 3 wheels anyway. Gleason Torsen differential.

Bought it at a salvage auction, stupid old woman hit it in the arse turning into my shop.

She tried to tell the cop I did not signal a turn. I told him she was so close to my arse for the last half mile she COULDN'T SEE the tail lights on my car. All I could see in my rear view mirror was the grille of her full sized GMC truck.

I also commented, that even if her statement had been true, I did not realize that the penalty for failure to signal a turn was to get hit in the arse by a full sized pickup.

Car was free after that, paid $1200, collected $2000 and no I did not try to make it happen.

regards
mech
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to user removed For This Useful Post:
niky (05-12-2015)
Old 05-11-2015, 03:43 PM   #88 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,023 Times in 1,304 Posts
The manual Mirage is .8 od 5th with a 4.0 to 1 diff (close enough). The CVT is a .55 OD with a 3.7 diff (again close enough).

The CVT first gear is 4 to 1. While the manual is like 3.75. The CVTs torque converter locks up before 10 mph and top gear revs per mile is probably 2/3rds of the manual.

My guess is they don't want to gear the manual too tall or idiot drivers would probably blow many more head gaskets lugging the engine.

With the CVT that is not possible.

All speculation and numbers from memory so they are close but not precise.

regards
mech
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 08:11 PM   #89 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,023 Times in 1,304 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Occasionally6 View Post
OK, it uses a TC. That explains a lot.

Needs a (manual or automated) clutch before we see what the real benefits of a CVT are.
The TC locks up almost as quickly as you can engage a clutch, before you clear an intersection, and it does not unlock as the sheaves change their relative diameters,basically it's only purpose is to allow the car to move away from a standstill. My 07 Altima was the same way. The converter did unlock if you shifted into neutral and I shifted to neutral up to 80mph and back into gear at as high as 70 mph. It would reengage unlocked then lock back up in the highest possible "gear". The Altimas highway mileage reflects the improvements Jatco (a subsidiary of Nissan) has made to their CVTs. Its 39 highway in the current model. The two speed improvement allows a higher (4to1) first gear ratio than most manuals and a lower top gear over drive ratio of .55 than MOST manuals.

Nissan also addressed the bad reputation with a 10-120 warranty AND the Murano had a 3500 lb towing capacity with the CVT.

regards
mech

Last edited by user removed; 05-11-2015 at 08:16 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 08:22 PM   #90 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,023 Times in 1,304 Posts
Torque converters are generally considered "life of the vehicle" components, while any clutch wears out even when driven carefully, even dual clutch automated manuals.

If my new Mirage had not been 10% higher price, I would have chosen the CVT. The $1285 price increase was the decision maker in choosing the manual.

regards
mech

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com