City ecodriving comparison: 2014 Mirage CVT vs. Mirage 5-speed vs. 1998 Metro 5-speed

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by niky

...you really feel it when you're banging through the [Mirage's] gears on the racetrack!

And there's something you don't read every day.

[niky]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

And there's something you don't read every day.

Having been probably only one of a dozen people who've ever had the Mirage up on two wheels... and lived... you probably won't read it ever again...

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

The EPA tests are the same; ie. acceleration is not based on throttle position, but following a speed vs. time trace on a computer screen connected to the dyno.

Do they regulate when to shift the manual or how they decelerate the manual?

[MetroMPG]

Yes.

And the EPA test shift points are definitely non-eco: no short shifting; no coasting is permitted; and the test (dyno) driver can't shift to top gear once up to cruising speed (if below the top gear threshold). All of which makes it generally easier to beat a manual car's EPA rating by a wider margin than an automatic's rating.

See: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ing-27416.html

[Fat Charlie]

Hell, I beat EPA highway by 3.1 mpg this morning with a trailer.

But the kids claim to have proof that ATs are more efficient.

[niky]

They're dreaming.

The only autos I've seen that are as good as manuals in real world traffic are the self-destructing Honda CVTs that you guys got in the Insight (we had them on our Fits) and the CVT on the Mirage.

[user removed]

Originally Posted by niky

Having been probably only one of a dozen people who've ever had the Mirage up on two wheels... and lived... you probably won't read it ever again...

Last time I had a car on two wheels it was auto crossing a manual trans NX2000. It spent most of the time on 3 wheels anyway. Gleason Torsen differential.

Bought it at a salvage auction, stupid old woman hit it in the arse turning into my shop.

She tried to tell the cop I did not signal a turn. I told him she was so close to my arse for the last half mile she COULDN'T SEE the tail lights on my car. All I could see in my rear view mirror was the grille of her full sized GMC truck.

I also commented, that even if her statement had been true, I did not realize that the penalty for failure to signal a turn was to get hit in the arse by a full sized pickup.

Car was free after that, paid $1200, collected $2000 and no I did not try to make it happen.

regards
mech

[user removed]

The manual Mirage is .8 od 5th with a 4.0 to 1 diff (close enough). The CVT is a .55 OD with a 3.7 diff (again close enough).

The CVT first gear is 4 to 1. While the manual is like 3.75. The CVTs torque converter locks up before 10 mph and top gear revs per mile is probably 2/3rds of the manual.

My guess is they don't want to gear the manual too tall or idiot drivers would probably blow many more head gaskets lugging the engine.

With the CVT that is not possible.

All speculation and numbers from memory so they are close but not precise.

regards
mech

[user removed]

Originally Posted by Occasionally6

OK, it uses a TC. That explains a lot.

Needs a (manual or automated) clutch before we see what the real benefits of a CVT are.

The TC locks up almost as quickly as you can engage a clutch, before you clear an intersection, and it does not unlock as the sheaves change their relative diameters,basically it's only purpose is to allow the car to move away from a standstill. My 07 Altima was the same way. The converter did unlock if you shifted into neutral and I shifted to neutral up to 80mph and back into gear at as high as 70 mph. It would reengage unlocked then lock back up in the highest possible "gear". The Altimas highway mileage reflects the improvements Jatco (a subsidiary of Nissan) has made to their CVTs. Its 39 highway in the current model. The two speed improvement allows a higher (4to1) first gear ratio than most manuals and a lower top gear over drive ratio of .55 than MOST manuals.

Nissan also addressed the bad reputation with a 10-120 warranty AND the Murano had a 3500 lb towing capacity with the CVT.

regards
mech

[user removed]

Torque converters are generally considered "life of the vehicle" components, while any clutch wears out even when driven carefully, even dual clutch automated manuals.

If my new Mirage had not been 10% higher price, I would have chosen the CVT. The $1285 price increase was the decision maker in choosing the manual.

regards
mech