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Old 01-15-2017, 08:11 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trucker John View Post
Hi Craysus,
Hard to give precise info on the fuel saving as it various a lot. But somewhere between 2-4%. They are very efficient on stability, less spray and dirt at the rears. Even on 2 tankers that we have. There are some independant road tests on V-Spoilers web page, including one from Australia.
We fit the panels on mostly at the end of each trailer (also double trailers). Also on all the tractors, that helps a lot in strong cross wind. Sometimes the panels don't fit, so we switch to their single units (but takes longer to mount). We dont fit in other locations, as we dont like how it then would look.
It was this easy (and fast) to put..

https://youtu.be/ka-dtpu15Zk

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Old 01-15-2017, 08:40 PM   #42 (permalink)
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They still need a good $250 worth of vspoilers per truck or trailer...multiplying by our fleet size (Approx 400 vehicles/trailers) its a crazy $100,000...(AUD)

I will see what I can get reproduced by a third party..and see if pricing points become more acceptable..

Saying that, the payback even at full retail (2-4%) is more than acceptable..
(2% of 35 million yearly...= 700k...so around 1.7 months payback..)
but, if i can do it for $20,000 total investment by removing the branding...why not!
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Old 01-15-2017, 10:29 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craysus View Post
They still need a good $250 worth of vspoilers per truck or trailer...multiplying by our fleet size (Approx 400 vehicles/trailers) its a crazy $100,000...(AUD)

I will see what I can get reproduced by a third party..and see if pricing points become more acceptable..

Saying that, the payback even at full retail (2-4%) is more than acceptable..
(2% of 35 million yearly...= 700k...so around 1.7 months payback..)
but, if i can do it for $20,000 total investment by removing the branding...why not!
Why don't you contact Vspoilers or 3M to get a good price if you buy for that many vehicles? (They must have protected their product)..
Do you have experience with Flow Below wheel covers?
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Old 01-16-2017, 01:58 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I remain agnostic on VGs. The 'recieved wisdom' around these parts goes like:
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5
Vortex generators likely won't be much help. They improve efficiency by keeping airflow laminar (attached to the surface). If you were to place a vortex generator at the very back of a trailer for instance, it would be pointless (and actually cause more drag) because there is nothing for the air to attach to beyond the end of the square trailer.
Other than cleaner swing doors, how would you counter that?

If this company is facing a $100,000 order, I'd make them work for it. Ask for a heat map (good locations in red, poor locations in blue) for your specific vehicle configuration.
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Old 01-16-2017, 03:58 PM   #45 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=craysus;532231]They still need a good $250 worth of vspoilers per truck or trailer...multiplying by our fleet size (Approx 400 vehicles/trailers) its a crazy $100,000...(AUD)
[/QUOTE)
A 3D printer is ~$500
$100 in supplys can produce 100's of VG's
https://youtu.be/ilUI-53OTE8
Offers the file to just hit print
Dreem big chisel down to reality
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1st gen cummins 91.5 dodge d250 ,HX35W/12
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best tank: distance 649gps mi 24.04 mpg 27.011usg
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Old 01-16-2017, 06:25 PM   #46 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=gumby79;532317]
Quote:
Originally Posted by craysus View Post
They still need a good $250 worth of vspoilers per truck or trailer...multiplying by our fleet size (Approx 400 vehicles/trailers) its a crazy $100,000...(AUD)
[/QUOTE)
A 3D printer is ~$500
$100 in supplys can produce 100's of VG's
https://youtu.be/ilUI-53OTE8
Offers the file to just hit print
Dreem big chisel down to reality
Plus a 3d scanner, or someone able to create from scratch in CAD..
Plus the time taken, ...18,000 of them on a 3d printer would cost me a heap in labour from my end.

I will contact both distributors of the the branded vortex generators, and see how they go..(Am in contact with one of them currently negotiating - sorry NDA inplace so can't comment on who or on their pricing points)

I have received some initial pricing back from China, on some similar units (Almost identical), ...they depend on the run size, but pricing is a LOT cheaper so far..of course, the quality also might be a lot worse, and the glue might be rubbish etc...all a risk factor tbh..
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Old 01-16-2017, 06:53 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
I remain agnostic on VGs. The 'recieved wisdom' around these parts goes like:

Other than cleaner swing doors, how would you counter that?

If this company is facing a $100,000 order, I'd make them work for it. Ask for a heat map (good locations in red, poor locations in blue) for your specific vehicle configuration.
As I understand it, by using the VG's on the rear of a trailer you create an extended air curtain off the back of the truck...this forms a "virtual" boat tail...
Looking at some of the heat maps on youtube, you can see this results in a tear drop shape off the back of the trailer, as opposed to the huge drag inducing turbulence off the back of a standard trailer.
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Old 01-16-2017, 06:56 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trucker John View Post
Why don't you contact Vspoilers or 3M to get a good price if you buy for that many vehicles? (They must have protected their product)..
Do you have experience with Flow Below wheel covers?
I am approaching them as well, as a preferred option would be to use a tested / proven quality product, at a better pricing point if possible!

We have used the wheel covers (Different brands), with "marginal" results. I believe this is due to no supporting aero mods inplace on the vehicles they are tested on. IE if you have turbulent air all over the trailer, and then smooth air over the wheels, it makes little to no difference..the smooth wheels will not reattach the turbulent air thats already there..
You must have laminar airflow over the trailers already, and then ensure it remains laminar over the wheels using the wheel covers, or spats / vortex generators to hop the wheels, or..complete side skirts to cover the entire wheel.
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:08 PM   #49 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=craysus;532333]
Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby79 View Post

Plus a 3d scanner, or someone able to create from scratch in CAD..
Plus the time taken, ...18,000 of them on a 3d printer would cost me a heap in labour from my end.

I will contact both distributors of the the branded vortex generators, and see how they go..(Am in contact with one of them currently negotiating - sorry NDA inplace so can't comment on who or on their pricing points)

I have received some initial pricing back from China, on some similar units (Almost identical), ...they depend on the run size, but pricing is a LOT cheaper so far..of course, the quality also might be a lot worse, and the glue might be rubbish etc...all a risk factor tbh..
Wouldn't rely on Chinese glue and 3D printed products that will easily break. stick to 3M
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Old 01-18-2017, 12:39 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Have started working on pricing points for the radiator redesign to allow for a much lower hood line..
Looks like if I take 600mm off the height of the radiator (From 1400mm approx including header tank), and turn it into a double thickness dual pass design, I would effectively enable the hood front line to come down to only 1-2 inches higher than the factory wheel fender heights!
I also greatly INCREASE the fluid capacity of the entire radiator..from 157.50 litres, to 180 litres approximately..being dual pass the efficiency should also increase slightly (Even with the huge thickness)


The FAN was the next hurdle, trying to find something narrower than the factory setup, with much higher CFM ratings to drag air through the double thickness core. Looks like the unit used on the airflow truck (Horton Windmaster Revolution) has a huge airflow..at around 2.0 Static Pressure (Kpa) it has about 7 CMS...which according to an online converter is about 14500CFM...
It can be driven by an electric motor, or...better yet, a 2 stage hydro clutch (That can also turn off when temps allow if digitally controlled),. This could then be mounted directly to the crankshaft instead of being belt driven (As the radiator centre point is much lower...no need to mount it up higher on the engine front, and using pulleys / belts to chew more friction). This would mean I could maintain a 150amp alternator to keep electrical drag lower..

The CAC (Charge air cooler - aka Intercooler), would need redesigning as well, to reduce its height / increase its thickness...and have the pipes directed out the ends, instead of over the top..this would not be an issue, as a aftermarket intercooler will be miles ahead of the oem tube and fin nastiness!

The Air intakes could mount on top of the engine..and be ducted either through the nose, or from side pods on the hood...

And the radiator would need to have remote mounted top tanks (Lowers the height on the radiator, allowing maximum fin area), as the top tank must be above engine height to allow for bleeding etc..

My head hurts....

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