"Clean Coal" Claims that Solar can't handle Baseload power demands!

[freebeard]

Agreed. What makes V2G viable is the Powerwall or equivalent.

Ultimately, networked microgrids with load balancing.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

That underscores my point, that Hawaii should have the cheapest electricity in the US, not the most expensive.

No it doesn't underscore your point. When Hawaii built out most of their generating capacity wind and solar wasn't cheaper so they built out fossil plants. Now they are stuck with those decisions.

Public utilities are given monopolies and in exchange they have to have their budgets and rates approved. No utility board is going to approve massive capital spending plans and the debt and rate increases required to scrap functional generating plants to replace them with wind and solar with battery back-up. That doesn't mean that wind and solar aren't cheaper to build out for new capacity.

When it comes time to replace existing capacity or add new generating capacity utilities and utility boards that approve their capital budgets only care about the actual costs to build out that new equipment and run it. In the real world they don't pretend that their existing generating capacity doesn't exist.

As it stands today coal isn't even in the running when utilities are looking to add capacity. It costs roughly 4x more to build out vs a natural gas plant of the same size, takes longer to build, and is less flexible than a gas plant.

Cheap natural gas made possible by fracking is killing coal in the USA. 15 years ago coal was king. In 2007 the US 2,016 billion kWh from Coal and 897 billion kWh from Natural Gas. In 2021 that flipped with 899 billion kWh from Coal and 1,575 billion kWh from Natural Gas.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

Meh, there's plenty of wind to take over baseload from coal, and it's cheaper now IIRC.

*Coal, Petroleum, natural gas constitute 12-terrawatts
* Wind constitutes 870-terrawatts
* Total Solar = 86,000=terrawatts
* In 2020, 755-GW of installed renewable power was stalled by lack of grid intertie transmission.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* At the Q-7, 27-km offshore, North Sea wind park, a single revolution of the Danish', VESTAS wind turbine provides enough power for a single European home/ day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The recent passage of the infrastructure bill will be throwing some $billions at wind and related technology.

[aerohead]

* On June 17, 2017, it was reported that a Finnish corporation providing solar-sourced electricity was selling @ $ 0.0244-kWh vs $ 0.0353 in India.
India has cancelled plans for construction of coal-fired power plants.
* Fifty-nine other countries are following India.
* In 2015, globally, fossil-fuel industries received $ 2-Trillion in subsidies.
* PM 2.5 and other health effects costs associated with coal-fired power plant emissions are calculated at $13.00 / MWh, which are not accounted for in coal price costing, which 'IF' on the ledger sheet would place Indian coal electricity at $ 0.0483- kWh vs $ 0.0244 ( 197% more expensive ).

[oil pan 4]

India is building more nuclear power plants, since solar can't cover base load at all.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

India is building more nuclear power plants, since solar can't cover base load at all.

When did you say that those new nukes would be coming online?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Presently, the cost of nuclear power in the USA is $ 0.03041/ kWh vs $ 0.0244 / kWh for solar in India, making solar 19.7% cheaper than nuclear.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

India is building more nuclear power plants, since solar can't cover base load at all.

India's power supply is so spotty that Mercedes decided to make their truck and bus plant in Oragadam, India 100% solar powered. Frequent power cuts from the electrical utility required diesel generators but the cost of diesel fuel is high enough that it made sense to switch over to solar. 85% solar today, they will be 100% in 2025.

https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto...567142535.html

[oil pan 4]

Indinia has brought a plant on line almost every other year for the last 25 years and they are building more.
Funny how one of the poorest nations on earth builds all these "too expensive nuclear" power plants.
If you rely on fuel oil to generate a good portion of your electricity, then solar is probably cheaper.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Indinia has brought a plant on line almost every other year for the last 25 years and they are building more.
Funny how one of the poorest nations on earth builds all these "too expensive nuclear" power plants.
If you rely on fuel oil to generate a good portion of your electricity, then solar is probably cheaper.

Funny that you are using a country that can't provide reliable power as a model. India is ranked 108 out of 141 countries in a 2019 World Bank rating of electrical grid reliability.


Seems like Coal cant keep the lights on either



https://swarajyamag.com/world/india-...ng-whats-ideal

[oil pan 4]

A woking power grid keeps the lights on.
A dozen nuclear plants isn't much when you have a billion people.
Solar is exceptionally bad when you have an unreliable power grid. That ridiculous 4 cents a kwh number the solar believers like to quote is grid tied. Problem is grid tie don't work with out the rest of the power grid and it wants a pretty pure grid signal to prevent islanding and power blow outs.