"Clean Coal" Claims that Solar can't handle Baseload power demands!

[oil pan 4]

Solar is trash if you're trying to reduce CO2 emissions.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0kahih8RT1k

[freebeard]

The so-called Clothesline Paradox applies here.

www.ioes.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Solar-Water-Heating-Report_Final.pdf

1.1 Background
Limited availability of natural gas and abundant sunshine made solar water heating
(SWH) systems an attractive choice for consumers during the end of the 19th and early
20th centuries.1 Prior to the 1930s, a limited natural gas distribution network and high
energy prices drove demand for domestic solar water heating systems. In 1897, one-third
of homes in Pasadena had solar water heaters.2 In the next several decades thousands of
additional units were installed in California.3,4 Consumers could heat water year-round
without having to use a stove, saving fuel and keeping residences cooler during the
summer months.5
During the 1930s, falling natural gas prices, urbanization, and incentives for consumers
to switch to gas water heaters led to the displacement of solar thermal technology from
the domestic market.6 Fluctuations in energy prices during the 1970s and 1980s had a
modest positive impact on demand for solar thermal, but as of 2009 more than 90% of
households in California have gas or electric water heaters.

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I'll defend coal because I like being the bad guy.

Which is what we like about you.

[oil pan 4]

Why flooding the grid with renewables is a fools errand.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N-yALPEpV4w

This must be the communists idea of "cheaper".

[Piotrsko]

You cant just cherry pick datapoints or graphs proving your point. Other events in Cali caused those changes that were not related to the production costs.

One that comes to mind was PGE (the other supplier) went into bankruptcy from mismanagement

[redpoint5]

Yeah, I'd normally agree... but then I don't see a cherry picked example of any large utility adopting wind/solar as the bulk of their production source and delivering comparatively low rates to their customers.

I can quibble with some of the specifics of Shellenberger's facts, but I cannot defeat any main point.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

You cant just cherry pick datapoints or graphs proving your point. Other events in Cali caused those changes that were not related to the production costs.

One that comes to mind was PGE (the other supplier) went into bankruptcy from mismanagement

The primary datapoint we need to concern ourselves with is deregulation

Within months of deregulation the California grid became unstable and prices went up

Deregulation of the electric grid has never worked, in every market where it is tried grid stability goes down, failures go up, maintenance becomes rare and prices increase

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/app...esults/555566/

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

You cant just cherry pick datapoints or graphs proving your point. Other events in Cali caused those changes that were not related to the production costs.

One that comes to mind was PGE (the other supplier) went into bankruptcy from mismanagement

I raise you Germany.


All you have to do is show is some electricity market where power got cheaper after adding a lot of renewables, not talking markets like Hawaii or Alaska where they use diesel and coal to generate power that hasto be barged 2,000 miles, those are messed up markets, they are tiny and don't relate to any large nations, be like comparing grapes to water melons.
If you answere "hydroelectric" them my answer is "great", but my next question is "where we going to put it"?

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

The primary datapoint we need to concern ourselves with is deregulation

Within months of deregulation the California grid became unstable and prices went up

Deregulation of the electric grid has never worked, in every market where it is tried grid stability goes down, failures go up, maintenance becomes rare and prices increase

You just described advagrid. They buy up public utilities, double prices, cut the maintenance budge.
A public utility might become corrupt, a private one is all but guaranteed to become corrupt.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Yeah, I'd normally agree... but then I don't see a cherry picked example of any large utility adopting wind/solar as the bulk of their production source and delivering comparatively low rates to their customers.

I can quibble with some of the specifics of Shellenberger's facts, but I cannot defeat any main point.

I don't even think the green leap backwards shrills can even find any example of solar and wind making an electricity market cheaper. Even when the market is powered by diesel reciprocating engines.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Yeah, I'd normally agree... but then I don't see a cherry picked example of any large utility adopting wind/solar as the bulk of their production source and delivering comparatively low rates to their customers.

I can quibble with some of the specifics of Shellenberger's facts, but I cannot defeat any main point.

Many have tried, all have failed.