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Old 08-23-2009, 01:39 PM   #31 (permalink)
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For what it may be worth to you, please consider this: I've been riding for over 30 years. I ride motor bikes now and can easily put 25k to 30k miles a year. I've NEVER had a problem in that area. In fact if you shift without the clutch which is completely normal your chances of wearing any rotational parts out for the duration of your ownership is slim to non. I'm also a machinist and have worked on transmissions and automotive components most all my life. So I hope you'll take my submissions with some decent amount of merit. Don't worry and have fun.

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Old 09-04-2009, 07:58 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
The Harley manual specifically recommends against coasting with either the clutch pulled in or the trans in neutral, and the clutch let out. It warns of transmission damage? Sounds a little dire to me, but I've been finding myself getting in a tuck and coasting more and more lately.
It is just giving you a Warning because it is a Harley and damage is what they do.lol Just kidding I think you would be fine. I was always told all the way out or in it is the in between that kill you.
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Old 09-05-2009, 11:41 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by naturalextraction View Post
For what it may be worth to you, please consider this: I've been riding for over 30 years. I ride motor bikes now and can easily put 25k to 30k miles a year. I've NEVER had a problem in that area. In fact if you shift without the clutch which is completely normal your chances of wearing any rotational parts out for the duration of your ownership is slim to non. I'm also a machinist and have worked on transmissions and automotive components most all my life. So I hope you'll take my submissions with some decent amount of merit. Don't worry and have fun.
and if im riding aggresively with my motrcycle ? shifting at 8-9-10k most of time .... should i use clutch?
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Old 09-06-2009, 07:41 AM   #34 (permalink)
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and if im riding aggresively with my motrcycle ? shifting at 8-9-10k most of time .... should i use clutch?
RPM doesn't matter. Proper clutchless upshifts are faster and smoother and work well with a non-synchro sequential gearbox (motorcycle, F1 cars). I think all the f1 cars do when you hit the paddle is cut the fuel for an instant to make some slack, and pop it in the next gear. It really is a lot faster and smoother than pretending you are driving an old dodge with a three on the tree.

But it is really hard for people to get over their fears of NOT using the clutch on a bike. It's a little kookie in fact, but something cyclists *should* understand better than they do, generally.
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:39 AM   #35 (permalink)
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RPM doesn't matter. Proper clutchless upshifts are faster and smoother and work well with a non-synchro sequential gearbox (motorcycle, F1 cars). I think all the f1 cars do when you hit the paddle is cut the fuel for an instant to make some slack, and pop it in the next gear. It really is a lot faster and smoother than pretending you are driving an old dodge with a three on the tree.

But it is really hard for people to get over their fears of NOT using the clutch on a bike. It's a little kookie in fact, but something cyclists *should* understand better than they do, generally.
how do you know there is no syncro in my bike ?

a tractor do not have syncro and we can hear it if we shift too fast

But i agree that we can shift easyli without clutching on a motorcycle , just relase the gas a little and push the lever on the next gear ....

But im not sure about the fact that it wont domage anything . IT will be violent to shift at 9k ...poor chain .
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:13 AM   #36 (permalink)
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But it is really hard for people to get over their fears of NOT using the clutch on a bike. It's a little kookie in fact, but something cyclists *should* understand better than they do, generally.
Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure what the benefit of not using the clutch would be.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:39 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Benefits:
faster and smoother shifting, less wear on clutch and related components. Once you get moving in 1st you can keep a better grip on the bars (or do something stupid/not shift related with your left hand). I haven't see any evidence of increased transmission wear in countless thousands of miles, though people who have never done it will swear that it is a bad thing to do.

Yan, your tractor isn't sequential, and most bike don't have synchros. You have to get back on the gas of course, as quick as you can flick your wrist and lift your toe if you are accelerating hard.
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Old 09-06-2009, 12:52 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Yanal, in a sequential gearbox, the gears aren't engaged the same way as your tractor's gearbox. In your tractor, you need to physically disengage from one gear before going into the next. In a sequential gearbox, you're actually engaging the next gear WHILE disengaging from the first, hence the reason that synchros aren't needed, and would, in fact, be extra weight and complexity for an otherwise (fairly) simple piece of equipment.

I shift without a clutch in almost everything I drive, as it saves wear on my left knee. Screw the car, it doesn't cost $10,000 to replace a clutch... knees, on the other hand, are a different story.

The only clutches I've had to change in my cars are ones that are worn when I get them, and ones that I burn out racing/pulling stuff. My 1988 Honda Civic LX had the OEM clutch in it when I bought it, with over 200k on it. By the time I sold it with a blown engine (amateur bracket racing), it still had the OEM clutch, and almost 300k on it.

The clutch is only necessary for taking off from a dead stop if you can't get a roll going, such as when pointing down a hill. I don't even use it when I stop, frankly.
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Old 09-06-2009, 06:54 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Just to say that Christ and dcb are correct and explain well this technique, from some one who has rebuilt these things for over 20 years. Once you learn how to do it, which is easy, it can become habit fairly quickly. It can save as much as 20k to 30k miles of wear on your clutch components (plate, throw out bearing etc, according to ATRA) with that technique. Motorbikes (cycles) are considerably easy even the older ones. Do some other research, talk with others who have made it a habit. Coasting as you know can save an enormous amount of gas over time, especially if you live in hilly areas. Don't fear it, do it.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:26 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Yeah, I used to shift w/o clutch in my Focus, it freaked people out! I do it on my bike too when I'm lazy

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