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Old 08-09-2009, 02:46 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I've heard people talk about this before as well. After doing this for 10,000 miles, i have yet to see any side effects. I do a LOT of Engine off Coasting with the clutch pulled in, and the only thing i have noticed is the clutch cable slowly stretching... but thats normal, i simply make the adjustments for it.

I will say that there is definately still friction on the drive gears even when the clutch is pulled in. You notice it more with a motorcycle because its much lighter than a car.

DCB, do you have any more information about what matsuzawa did? I'd been looking into ways in moving my nuetral gear between 5th and 6th on my ninja, but this sounds easier?

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Old 08-09-2009, 03:48 PM   #12 (permalink)
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A neutral gear can be made between each gearchange by grinding a slot for the spring loaded neutral blocking lever like DCB explained.
Probably that is what Matsuzawa also did. Most Japanese bikes are build so that you can get access and do that by taking the side cover off.
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Old 08-09-2009, 05:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Cool! I did not know that. Might have to try it.
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Old 08-09-2009, 06:35 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanx to all who replied, seems safe within limits. Probably won't do alot, but occasionally, as there be hills between home and work!
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Old 08-09-2009, 09:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janvos39 View Post
A neutral gear can be made between each gearchange by grinding a slot for the spring loaded neutral blocking lever like DCB explained.
Probably that is what Matsuzawa also did. Most Japanese bikes are build so that you can get access and do that by taking the side cover off.
It really does sound interesting. Does this mean the only mechanism that differs a sequential gearbox from a non sequential is a neutral block lever? That seems too easy.

I cant imagine it would deter shifting very much if done properly, as long as your foot makes a full shifter motion to complete the shift all the way through. It would be like going from 1st,through neutral, into 2nd (as it is now), but on every gear change.

Would you guys be able to provide me some more information on this? And i mean besides just simply talking about it. I'd like to know what to do.
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Old 08-09-2009, 10:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Basically the shifts are controlled by a drum that rotates. Each gear HAS to have a point where it is in "neutral" between gears, otherwise something would break, so you figure out which shaft has the neutral detent on it, and figure out how many degrees that shaft turns per shift and put your additional detent slot(s) at those intervals from the existing slot.

For starters, you should be able to put the bike on centerstand and put it in top-gear, then by hand do a "half downshift" and get the rear wheel to freewheel (by hand). Might take a few tries.

On my bike I can unscrew the detent ball and look at the shaft, so I could possibly mark it there (or at least get in the ballpark), but you do have to be pretty precise with locating the detent groove. With a removable ball, I could manually find the "best" high neutral by hand, then put some prussian blue on the detent ball and screw the ball holder in then out and I should have a blue mark precisely where my second detent should go.

It "may" be possible to do it externally, by having a "stop" for the gear shift lever that you engage with some hand control or switch or something. For example, imagine a substantial bolt (so you can adjust it easily) that you can swing (accurately and repeatably) into the way of the downshift lever with a small hand lever or switch. If you want to go to neutral then move the bolt in the way of the shifter and hold the "half shift" down on the stop with your foot. No promises, just thinking out loud.
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Old 08-15-2009, 10:51 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Having built and rebuilt transmissions in cars and bikes for 20 years now, I've done plenty of study on worn components and to their cause. I ride an 02 SV 650 and live in a mountainous area. The benefits to coasting have been great. I've been coasting daily, yes I drive this even on winter days providing the snow is not an issue, and literally just about every day (I've put as much as 32K in one year) now for 2 years straight on this particular bike and have never had a problem. The coasting alone gets me anywhere from 15 to 26 extra miles per tank. I also shut the bike off at lights knowing I'll have about 3 minuets as I roll up on a yellow. (not all lights, just when it seems appropriate, no need for a starter yet either.) Depending on the amount of city to rural driving makes a big difference on mileage. Bike clutches have less rotational parts to worry about, like throughout bearing. The cable and connection pieces also don't seem to ever be a problem even with my high mileage driving. I don't use the clutch much for up shifting or down shifting anyway.
I have some heavy duty Barnett clutches and springs on my Turbo 82 Yamaha (no they didn't make one that year it's a custom job) and the only difference of course is holding in the clutch for any length of time. But I'm used to it and it's truly not a concern. I figure I coast more than most and I will say though that getting a car in neutral is easier than a motorcycle. Yes a clutch pull is worth it and doesn't seem to provoke any pre-mature wear or hurt anything. It would take many years to really put any fatigue on the metal springs and spacers. By then you need a new clutch pack anyway if you really ride it that much!
PS. A 1946 250 Honda Rebel? That can't be right. 1986 or 96 I can see. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Old 08-16-2009, 02:49 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I tend to do a lot of clutch in coasting on my Ninja. So far I've put on about 2000-3000 miles with no sign of any problems. I also like to shift to N when approching a red, It tends to coast even farther, and gives me the option of 1st or 2nd depending on how fast I'm going when I hit the light.
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:34 AM   #19 (permalink)
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So.. you have one strong hand, right? LOL.
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Old 08-16-2009, 01:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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It's not so bad, some bikes have stiffer clutch handles than others though. do you own a motor bike?

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