The Concept of Ownership

[Arragonis]

The price of gold was driven up initially by people looking for a safe place for their money after the problems in 2008-9 and then by speculators seeing an opportunity. There isn't really a commodity that can be used to price anything else like food or fuel, at least not in a stable way.

If Spain (or Greece or whoever) devalues then they will have a period of inflation (imported prices rise) and unemployment. Once wage rates fall they will become once again competitive with other countries and recover. It has worked elsewhere - e.g. Argentina. At the moment Spain is locked into the Euro Zone where it can't control its own money supply or interest rates and is and burdened with unemployment anyway.

But it looks like they may get the chance to do this - the uk.gov has told the UK banks to prepare for a Euro collapse, and some are betting 50:50 that it will go by Christmas. The Foreign Office has warned of riots in Europe as it fails.

If they had bitten the bullet on this a year ago they could have split the Euro Zone into North and South regions which would have reduced the pressures on it.

I'm still wondering what the Euro is there to do any more.

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I'm still wondering what the Euro is there to do any more.

It gives the illusion of a united Europe.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I'm still wondering what the Euro is there to do any more.

So you don't have to stuff your wallet full of half a dozen different currencies when you travel? Really, I thought that was the whole point of the Euro.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Thymeclock

Back when gold was priced at $400 per oz. the price of both a loaf of bread and a pound of rice was much less than it is now.

Here's an interesting link: Commodity Food Price Index - Monthly Price - Commodity Prices - Price Charts, Data, and News - IndexMundi
This one is to commodity food price, but the site has all sorts of things, which can be graphed over different periods. Here's crude oil: Crude Oil (petroleum), Price index - Monthly Price - Commodity Prices - Price Charts, Data, and News - IndexMundi and here's gold: Gold - Monthly Price - Commodity Prices - Price Charts, Data, and News - IndexMundi

See much correlation there? (Note that the Y-axes aren't zero-based, so you have to mentally correct for that.)

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

So you don't have to stuff your wallet full of half a dozen different currencies when you travel? Really, I thought that was the whole point of the Euro.

The original concept from the "Eurocrats" was much more, some kind of full economic and eventually a political union. Something like the Euro could exist and include Northern Europe (France, Germany, Belgium, Denmark etc.). Beyond that the countries are too different in terms of economic pace, direction and policy, although maybe a seperate Euro could exist.

The idea of political union is even harder. A few years ago there was a new constitution or treaty. In several countries in Europe the populations voted no, the response from the EU was to get them to vote again until they said yes. In the UK we didn't even get a chance to vote, and when parliament was "asked" by the people to debate Europe the government imposed a 3-line whip (basically MPs who rebelled would be expelled, although none have) to make sure they won - just about...

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

In several countries in Europe the populations voted no, the response from the EU was to get them to vote again until they said yes.

That same election scheme is played in America with school budget elections. If it is voted down they just schedule endless subsequent elections until it passes.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by Thymeclock

That same election scheme is played in America with school budget elections. If it is voted down they just schedule endless subsequent elections until it passes.

It got better - the Greek PM suggested the other week he would like to ask the people whether they would like to have 10+ years of hardship paying back unaffordable debts to German banks, or indeed if they would rather not. He was removed by the EU within 72 hours.

Same for Italy too.

"European Democracy" is becoming like "Military Intelligence", a contradiction in terms.

[jamesqf]

Humm... Paying back debts is hardship? Might have been wise to think about that before taking out the loans, no?

[rayjay]

Depends on the definition of hardship. For the Greeks it is self inflicted. As long as the Marxist, Socialist, Unions are in control . Now look at where they are, that system always fails. Nobody wants to be the one to support all the lazy slugs that have sucked the system dry. The present US leadership is working very hard to take us in the same direction. Our black Usurper and his cronies have to be stopped cold or the US will be no better than the Greeks.

SOCIALISM DOES NOT WORK !!!!

There end of my rant.

Ray

[MetroMPG]

You win the "lock this thread" prize.

Politics, people.