Cruising toward Oblivion

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

English is not my native language.

I could tell English is not your native language; it's much better than the natives.

[spacemanspif]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I could tell English is not your native language; it's much better than the natives.

I talk English good, 'Merica!!! Lol

I think it's funny that the article in question talks about people not having cars becuase of high student loan debt; as if a new car is the only option. And that people aren't connected to their cars, mechanically, as they used to be but no mention of vehicles being more complicated just to keep people coming back to dealers for service work. There are plenty of young people around here that are still into cars but I know there are still many more people in the world with no clue how to go about popping the hood.

I look exactly like my avatar pic lol

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by spacemanspif

I think it's funny that the article in question talks about people not having cars becuase of high student loan debt; as if a new car is the only option.

Some people see used cars as unreliable and are not willing to deal with the preventive and eventually corrective maintenance required by one, but would feel ashamed to be seen driving a no-frills subcompact if that's the only thing they could buy brand-new. Scooters and low-displacement motorcycles could be a reasonable option for many folks with a low budget to spend in a private vehicle, such as students, but motorcycles seem to be culturally regarded as "inferior" in America (unless it's a fancy Harley-Davidson).

And that people aren't connected to their cars, mechanically, as they used to be but no mention of vehicles being more complicated just to keep people coming back to dealers for service work.

Another reason that could drive more mechanically-inclined people toward motorcycles, as they usually are technically simpler. Sure it wouldn't be so much of an one-size-fits-all approach, but shouldn't be so overlooked

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by spacemanspif

...but no mention of vehicles being more complicated just to keep people coming back to dealers for service work.

Couple of questionable assumptions there. First, I haven't found new* cars to be more complicated than old ones. I'm sure glad I'll never have to try to tune a carb again (let alone multiple carb setups), adjust distributor points, &c. And 10K mile oil changes beat the 2500 mile ones.

Second point, which follows from the first, is that a lot of the supposed complexity of newer cars actually goes to reduce service work. If newer cars go back to the dealer more often than those of past years, it's because of laws which require the dealers to do certain things. Who'd ever heard of a manufacturer recalling vehicles, 50 years ago?




*Though understand that my definition of "new" means anything with electronic fuel injection and engine management.

[redpoint5]

I haven't ridden my motorcycle at all this summer because I am 10,000 miles past the valve adjustment schedule. I told myself not to ride it until the maintenance has been completed, and that winter was the perfect time to do it... here I am 10 months later and it's still yet to be done.

I'm just intimidated because I know it won't go smoothly. Fixing the cam chain tensioner required only the removal/reinstall of 2 bolts, but it took 3 hours. Engineers should be required to work on every component they design before it goes into production.

[spacemanspif]

The number of specialty tools required to work on cars and/or proprietary software interface to diagnose problems is part of the added complexity I'm referring to in my previous post. Add to that that carbs aren't that difficult to tune, but I'll concede that doing on a monthly basis is far more work than never needing to tune an EFI engine. Pop the hood on a car built in the last 10 years and if it's anything above an entry-level vehicle, underhood is a plastic cover trying to convince the owner not to remove it and see the complicated mess of wires and hoses running every which way and seemingly designed to keep normal people from doing their own work. My Saturn was EFI and quite simple and I loved that everything was within reach and very much serviceable, fast forward to my Focus and just to change the PCV valve or thermostat, the intake manifold needs to be removed, however, in order to access 1 manifold bolt I have to drop the fan shroud/radiator...which vehicle is more complicated now? Bear in mind that my Focus is rated at only 10 more HP than the Saturn 12 years it's senior and gets worse MPG than the Saturn. My feeling is that if major complication is going to be added to a vehicle it should come with reward of tons of power or incredible fuel efficiency.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

You know, the emission regulations is often used as an excuse for the mediocrity of newer cars in spite of their increased complexity.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

You know, the emission regulations is often used as an excuse...

But that's all it is: an excuse. Lotus puts Toyota engines in their non-mediocre cars.

[Xist]

I do not feel that cars have become significantly more efficient over the years, what do we say? They become bigger and heavier, while more or less maintaining their fuel economy?

They do seem to have become more powerful.

Eric the Car Guy bought a 1979 Ford Fairmont with a 3.3L six-cylinder with 85 BHP. My 1987 Honda Prelude Si had a 2L engine with 110 HP, my HX has 115 HP out of 1.6L, and the current Civic gets 143 HP from 1.8L.

While Civic engines keep growing, aren't manufacturers making smaller engines that are as powerful as their older ones?

Isn't that some kind of progress?

[freebeard]

My experience bears that out. In the 1970s I drove cars with 36HP. Today I drive a car built in the 70s that has 55hp, and gets about the same mileage even with the advantage of an electronic ignition. 33% more displacement.

I've got a 'modern' stroker 1776 (10% more) mileage motor on the bench that should do better.

Modern because it was built ten years ago.