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Old 08-21-2008, 11:03 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Dealer says ScanGauge ruined my PCM and I can't use ScanGauge anymore

I've had my car into my local dealer 5 times now for a check engine light code (PO171: air-fuel ration, feedback is stable after warm up, but rich on start up), which is a lean running condition.They checked the mass air flow sensor, engine coolant temp sensor, changed the front O2 sensor, checked the pcv, says the fuel pressure is ok, and have replaced all 4 injectors.

Basically, they have went down the list and keep calling GM technical support and have no clue what the issue is that is causing the code. They asked me about my ScanGauge on the 2nd trip because their tech thought it might be sending codes to the ECM and PCM and is screwing it up. I explained it is only reading and not changing or flashing anything. I also explained that the check engine light was also on BEFORE I even bought the ScanGauge and plugged it in. Well, now they are trying to tell me that it is screwing up the PCM because it makes the car get better fuel economy (they went online to see what a ScanGauge was). I don't think they read the part about it helps with fuel economy by giving you read outs so you can adjust your driving patterns.

Anyhow, they also said they can't even reflash the PCM like they can on GM cars. So, they are going to replace the PCM, but told me I can't plug my ScanGauge back in after or it will void my warranty on the PCM in the future (at any GM dealer).

Has anyone ever had a dealer tell them they can't use their ScanGauge? Do you think they are just grasping for straws here?

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Old 08-21-2008, 11:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
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They are definitly grasping for straws. They don't know what the scangauge is, so they blame it. Its a lot easier than fixing the problem correctly. This seems to be a common dealer/mechanic problem (not with the scangauge, just in general). They said it themselves, the PCM can not be flashed, so the engine can't be effected by the scangauge.

I'd probably just comply with them for now, and if the new PCM fixes the problem I'd put the scangauge back on. There is no way that it is the problem.
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Old 08-21-2008, 11:16 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I had a friend in College who had to take his shiny chrome header pipes off EVERY time he brought the car in for service, because putting them in voided the warranty.

Just remove the scanguage before you go in for services.
Incompetents, though. Straw-grasping incompetents.
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Old 08-21-2008, 11:18 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
They said it themselves, the PCM can not be flashed, so the engine can't be effected by the scangauge.
LOL ... that's a great point, didn't even think of saying that back to them. I will when they pick me up to go get a rental car. They are very nice there and I don't think they're trying to screw me over at all. They just can't figure it out so they are looking for causes. The ECM and PCM are the very last things on their list to fix so they are getting worried I think.
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Old 08-21-2008, 11:19 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by millenniumtree View Post
I had a friend in College who had to take his shiny chrome header pipes off EVERY time he brought the car in for service, because putting them in voided the warranty.

Just remove the scanguage before you go in for services.
Incompetents, though. Straw-grasping incompetents.
Yeah I thought about just unplugging it, but I had the cord all tucked up nice under the dash and door trim. I didn't want to redo it so I left it on ... stupid me.
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Old 08-21-2008, 12:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markmysite View Post
They are very nice there and I don't think they're trying to screw me over at all.
The "front" people are nice, but behind the scenes scammery could be afoot.

Ask any mechanic who worked at a dealer shop. Many are very good, but the service manager makes a lot of decision making.

I'm not saying all of them...

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Old 08-21-2008, 12:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Just a bunch of nuts. If they weren't going to fix it, I'd say take it to a Toyota dealership as the Vibe is the same thing as the Matrix
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Old 08-21-2008, 12:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Stealerships will always try to take the easy way out. In addition to this, they will always try to relate an aftermarket part to play a role in the problem so that it is not covered under warranty.

What I say is get a clean start. Goto another dealership. Maybe even take the scanguage off and get a second opinion from them. See how it goes from there.
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well, I called Linear-Logic (company who makes SG) as soon as they were open. I spoke with Ron DeLong (the inventor of the ScanGauge) for quite a while. He was not happy to hear them saying that the SG could be the cause and said that if that's the case then GM and Toyota are selling a car that is non-OBDII compliant and that it is against the law. He said that if in fact the SG is causing the problem, that GM and Toyota are going to need to issue a recall of every single vehicle that is not meeting the compliance laws.

He asked for the dealer name, phone and contact person in service. He got my name, car make, model and year. He said he would call my dealer when we got off the phone. Well, he called the dealer and explained what his product does, that it could not cause this issue, and so on. He also explained that his company would take legal action from this point if needed. I assume Linear-Logic would not like such unsubstantiated claims continuing to be made ... heh.

Anyhow, during this time the service manager was on her way to pick me up to get me a rental car. Ron called me back while I was in the car with her to let me know what he said to the service person at the dealer. He also let me know that he left the service mgr a voice mail (I let him know I was in the car with her and he said to tell her about it).

So, I get my rental car and leave. 8 minutes later Ron calls again to let me know he spoke with the manager and they will replace my PCM under warranty. She still persisted that the SG might be 1 bad one in 50,000 and it could be the cause. So, to nullify that issue Ron is going to send me a brand new replacement unit express mail.

Ron also told her that he thinks changing the PCM will not fix that code (which I had already brought up to the dealer), and that he thinks it's a vacuum leak issue. He explained how to check for it while driving and everything. I don't know if they will do what he asked, but he is going so far out of his way to help me it's unbelievable. I've never, ever dealt with a company who was this helpful and responsive. Talk about customer service, and from the inventor/owner no less.

He also advised me of lemon-law application to this issue, and we discussed the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Basically, the dealer is going to have to fix this CEL code or get me a new car, period. Ron ended our conversation with this, "Mark we will get this whole situation figured out, don't worry about it". How freaking cool is this guy?!?!?!?!?

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Old 08-21-2008, 01:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Awesome.

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