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Old 10-08-2013, 06:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by E.Roy View Post
This is an interesting post, and I don't know about DDG. Thank you for posting this. I did just hear eaves dropping on a meeting at work that producing Ethanol has solids byproduct which is sold off as 'nutrient rich' feed. This bothers me because why can't you just feed it straight to animals? Nope it has to be processed first. Please post more info on this subject
There are already several threads on ethanol on this site where you can find more than you ever want to know about it.
May I suggest we keep the discussion here more or less on topic, i.e. limited to its role in the import/export fuel balance?

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Old 10-08-2013, 08:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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An easier way to eliminate foreign oil imports is to utilize more CNG.

Right now so much natural gas is produced by the Bakken oil field in North Dakota that it shows up in outer space.

SkyTruth: Bakken Shale-Oil Drilling and Flaring Lights Up the Night Sky

That red splotch represents billions of cubic feet of natural gas being flared off as a safety measure to prevent well blow-outs (BP oil spill type accidents).

Why is it so difficult to build pipelines to carry this gas to centers of usage where it could be refined, compressed and used as motor fuel? Think Keystone XL.

Why does it cost so much to convert an existing car or truck to use CNG? Think EPA.
Does that oil field use fracking to extract the NG? If it did, I would be afraid for anybody living in that watershed(s). I would also be nervous of having a large, national pipeline too, much the same way people are afraid of the keystone xl and for the same reasoms (well, some). Also, does venting that NG out to atmosphere (and thus space) make it any more or less polutive than another fossil fuel?

When it comes to NG, I would rather we use it to heat our homes and light our businesses, rather than drive our cars, that way we can eliminate coal as a power source.
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
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2) Tax dollars are needed, and fuel is highly taxed in U.S. (much less than Europe)
and Gov't doesn't want to lose tax
The opposite is true. In Europe, as much as half the cost of a gallon of gas is just taxes. Which is one reason it's $7-8 a gallon in Europe if i'm not misinformed. In America something like 49 cents of a gallon is for taxes, less depending on state. America is really under taxing gasoline. The majority of states haven't raised the gas tax in over a decade. This is one reason why some states are thinking of adding yearly taxes to EV's to help maintain roads.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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This kind of relates, we have such easy access to natural gas that there are companies now exporting lng to any country wanting to purchase. Hows that sound OPEC?
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Electric cars don't use any oil; foreign or domestic. And, we can produce electricity from the wind, the sun, the ocean, from falling water, and from biomass. Biomass like methane from sewage and farm waste can also be used just like CNG.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Electric cars don't use any oil; foreign or domestic. And, we can produce electricity from the wind, the sun, the ocean, from falling water, and from biomass. Biomass like methane from sewage and farm waste can also be used just like CNG.
I agree, there are many more ways to produce electricity, whether for transportation or building use, that are much better than any FF.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:19 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Electric cars don't use any oil; foreign or domestic.
Yes they do. Where do you think plastic comes from? Production of raw materials, transportation of materials and manufacturing all consume oil, before the car is even built. Then you have to use diesel fuel to transport the car, either by ship, train or truck. Plus any kind of lubrication or hydraulic system uses oil.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:33 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sheepdog 44 View Post
The opposite is true. In Europe, as much as half the cost of a gallon of gas is just taxes. Which is one reason it's $7-8 a gallon in Europe if i'm not misinformed. In America something like 49 cents of a gallon is for taxes, less depending on state. America is really under taxing gasoline. The majority of states haven't raised the gas tax in over a decade. This is one reason why some states are thinking of adding yearly taxes to EV's to help maintain roads.
I was acknowledging Europe has higher tax than U.S.
I still maintain fuel is highly taxed if it's 15%
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:34 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
Electric cars don't use any oil; foreign or domestic. And, we can produce electricity from the wind, the sun, the ocean, from falling water, and from biomass. Biomass like methane from sewage and farm waste can also be used just like CNG.
Fossil fuels produce 2/3 the electricity the world uses each year. Out of all the CO2 pumped into the atmosphere by fossil fuels, ~50% is generated from electricity production. Unless the electricity used to charge the EV comes directly from a renewable source, it does use fossil fuels in some way. And even if a solar panel at your house charged the car, electricity from fossil fuels was used to design, produce, and transport the solar panels as well as the car. Everything on the market has a connection to fossil fuels in some way.

And while renewable energy as an electricity source has grown significantly in past decades, natural gas has grown at the same pace. The world is using more and more energy, requiring more and more of each source. If you look at the EIA projections for the next 30 years, natural gas and renewable grow at the same rate, and coal continues to grow as well.

U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/Dow...r-3-Energy.pdf
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Last edited by cbaber; 10-08-2013 at 11:39 PM..
 
Old 10-08-2013, 11:44 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
There are already several threads on ethanol on this site where you can find more than you ever want to know about it.
May I suggest we keep the discussion here more or less on topic, i.e. limited to its role in the import/export fuel balance?

The occasional drunken cow is welcome of course
Watch out for them revenooers.

We could easily turn the ethanol into booze, at a higher profit margin than using it for a fuel additive. But doing that would increase the supply of booze on the market and lower the price of it. Such commodities are under the influence of powerful political lobbying.

Apparently increasing the supply of distilled spirits for human consumption is not what the government wants. And government always gets what IT wants through force. Which is why we have the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms...

 
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