Decreasing "Dependence on Foreign Oil"

[E.Roy]

I have been perturbed by the fact that the U.S. Gov't has seen fit to reduce "Dependence on Foreign Oil" by using Ethanol rather than by improving traffic efficiency.

I live in Buffalo, NY and there are only (2) One-way streets I know of in all of Western NY where the lights are timed so that you can make light after light. It gets you across downtown in a couple minutes.

Ethanol, so I have heard, requires .6 gal of diesel to make 1 gallon. YET, THEY HAVE APPROX THE SAME ENERGY CONTENT. It seems to me such a pointless endeavor.

So why hasn't improvements to traffic patterns been sought for REAL reduction in oil dependency.

I propose the following reasons:

1) Some high ranking official(s) had a lot to gain from getting Ethanol use off the ground
2) Tax dollars are needed, and fuel is highly taxed in U.S. (much less than Europe)
and Gov't doesn't want to lose tax
3) Your input please...

[Miller88]

the only reason ethanol is being forced down our throats is because there are giant Agri Corporations that push lobbyists to get it passed into law.

Here in Syracuse, we have some REALLY poorly timed stop lights

[Arragonis]

You are aware that the US is importing less and less oil ?

U.S. Net Imports of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products (Thousand Barrels per Day)

[Big Dave]

An easier way to eliminate foreign oil imports is to utilize more CNG.

Right now so much natural gas is produced by the Bakken oil field in North Dakota that it shows up in outer space.

SkyTruth: Bakken Shale-Oil Drilling and Flaring Lights Up the Night Sky

That red splotch represents billions of cubic feet of natural gas being flared off as a safety measure to prevent well blow-outs (BP oil spill type accidents).

Why is it so difficult to build pipelines to carry this gas to centers of usage where it could be refined, compressed and used as motor fuel? Think Keystone XL.

Why does it cost so much to convert an existing car or truck to use CNG? Think EPA.

[Frank Lee]

Easier yet is to drive economical vehicles, and make a conscious effort to put on fewer miles.

Just read today to expect natural gas prices to increase. You just know they won't stay down, especially if the powers that be catch a whiff of a movement to burn the stuff in vehicles.

[MetroMPG]

I'm being proactive here: this is a friendly reminder that political discussion is verboten on this forum.

It hasn't veered that way yet. (But if the past is any indicator...)

[shovel]

Originally Posted by E.Roy

Ethanol, so I have heard, requires .6 gal of diesel to make 1 gallon. YET, THEY HAVE APPROX THE SAME ENERGY CONTENT. It seems to me such a pointless endeavor.

Every time someone quotes this, they treat it as if farmers are growing corn for ethanol, extracting the ethanol and then dumping the rest of the mash/grain into a giant hole in the ground...

Ethanol and livestock feed are byproducts of each other. DDG/S ship and store better than whole grains so there would be a massive market for them even if the misconception was reversed, and feed producers just dumped all the byproduct ethanol into a giant hole in the ground.

We eat a lot of bacon cheeseburgers, we need a lot of DDG, we make a lot of ethanol, it's all one supply chain. It's time we get used to that reality 'cause it's not changing.

[user removed]

We should be exporting surplus fuels, but sadly we did not try to make more efficient powertrains, when the designs have been around for years. While we argue individual agendas the climate comes ever closer to the "tipping point" claimed by many, yet we ignore solutions that could be enacted virtually instantly.

I accept ethanol for what it is, a renewable fuel source. Understand to accept something is not to endorse it. I endorse eliminating the whole sham altogether, as recommended by the EPA, Ford, and several Universities, by improving aerodynamics and powertrain efficiencies, thus reducing overall consumption by 50%. Working models were built 7 years ago.

Political = Poli-tics
Many blood sucking leaches

Cant remember if it's leach or leech, been reading too many posts by those on the other side of the pond!

regards
Mech

[E.Roy]

Originally Posted by shovel

Every time someone quotes this, they treat it as if farmers are growing corn for ethanol, extracting the ethanol and then dumping the rest of the mash/grain into a giant hole in the ground...

Ethanol and livestock feed are byproducts of each other. DDG/S ship and store better than whole grains so there would be a massive market for them even if the misconception was reversed, and feed producers just dumped all the byproduct ethanol into a giant hole in the ground.

We eat a lot of bacon cheeseburgers, we need a lot of DDG, we make a lot of ethanol, it's all one supply chain. It's time we get used to that reality 'cause it's not changing.

This is an interesting post, and I don't know about DDG. Thank you for posting this. I did just hear eaves dropping on a meeting at work that producing Ethanol has solids byproduct which is sold off as 'nutrient rich' feed. This bothers me because why can't you just feed it straight to animals? Nope it has to be processed first. Please post more info on this subject

[user removed]

Ya don't want a bunch of drunk Cows runnin all oveah the place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sa joke mate.

regards
Mech