Diesel exhaust as cancerous as asbestos

[t vago]

Originally Posted by mechman600

From the American Cancer Society:
Diesel Exhaust

Seems they agree with the WHO.

Of course. I especially like this bit:

Several studies have found that long-term, heavy exposure to diesel exhaust can cause lung cancer in lab animals such as rats. However, the cancer-causing effects of diesel exhaust in these animals may relate to soot overload in their lungs. If true, this would suggest that normal lung defenses must be overcome in order for diesel exhaust to cause lung cancer.

Yah... Kind of like force-feeding lab rats with 20,000 times the amount of sodium saccharin that would be deemed reasonable. Wonder why they'd get cancer...

I like this bit, too:

Lung cancer is the major cancer thought to be linked to diesel exhaust. Several studies of workers exposed to diesel exhaust have shown small but significant increases in risk of lung cancer. Men with the heaviest and most prolonged exposures, such as railroad workers, heavy equipment operators, miners, and truck drivers, have been found to have higher lung cancer death rates than unexposed workers. Although most studies have found a link between diesel exhaust exposure and lung cancer, some have not. Still, based on the number of people exposed at work, diesel exhaust may pose a substantial health risk. The relationship between lung cancer and exposure to diesel exhaust outside of the workplace has not been studied extensively.

Unfortunately, science is not a democratic process. Worse yet, there is no causal link (that's kind of important). Even if most studies show a small but significant increase due to some supposed link that may or may not be causal, other do not. Unless you can provide a convincing scientific explanation one way, or another, it's both premature and foolhardy to conclude that diesel exhaust is in fact carcinogenic.

I also like this:

Some of these expert agencies have classified diesel exhaust as to whether it can cause cancer. These classifications are based largely on studies looking at the possible link to lung cancer.

The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) is part of the World Health Organization (WHO). Its major goal is to identify causes of cancer. IARC classifies diesel engine exhaust as "carcinogenic to humans," based on the evidence that it is linked to an increased risk of lung cancer.

Gee, no causal link, but they're going to proclaim it anyway. Kind of like anthropomorphic global climate change.

Originally Posted by mechman600

Ever go to a third world city and witness the constant smoke looming in the air? It made me physically ill in no time, but that's because my body isn't used to it. These smoke infested cities is what the WHO is concerned about.

Yah, I've been to all sorts of places. India, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, Thailand, Malaysia. How's it going to help these places to have some bureaucracy deem something to be carcinogenic when the evidence doesn't support such a proclamation?

Also: Why doesn't the WHO do something about Kabul, Afghanistan, where the people there burn human feces for heating their homes. Or about slash-and-burn? Or China?

Gee, it stands to reason that practically anything's cancerous if you receive enough of an overdose of that thing. Why worry about diesel exhaust? People live longer, our population at large is growing, and even the American Cancer Society isn't tracking any rise in lung cancer incidence rates.

[2000mc]

in the "so what to do about it now?" category

from http://download.thelancet.com/flatco...4512702802.pdf

there is a section sited from another article saying "risk increased with duration
of exposure but not with cumulative exposure."

unfortunately, it sounded like the only reason diesel exhaust bumped up from group2a and gasoline exhaust didnt, was that they couldnt find a good group of people with exposure to gas exhaust like they could with diesel.... so i'm guessing its just a matter of time before gasoline exhaust gets bumped up too.

[mechman600]

BAM...that's what I was looking for! Thanks for your insight.

What I am most concerned about is my workplace, where there is constantly DPFs coming apart for troubleshooting or preventative maintenance purposes. I purchased good respirators for everyone in the shop a few years back, but there nothing to stop soot from drifting to other bays where people are not wearing their respirators. Also, with a prevalent mentality that DPF engines are "clean as clean can be", some of my colleagues are lazy when it comes to using the shop exhaust fans while running trucks indoors. I know too many diesel mechanics that died from cancer.

Diesel engine exhaust stinks. Period. Old diesels and new diesels alike, to varying degrees. Chances are, if something offends your nose, it's probably not the greatest for you.

[euromodder]

It took a while for asbestos to be seen as the dangerous stuff that we now know it is.
We used it for everything, from wavy roof deckings to firefighter's hot suits.
Yet it's gone now.
As a product anyway - the problem is still out and about in everything we ever used asbestos in.

Very fine dust - of just about any kind - is a problem.
And being so tiny (under 2.5 micrometer), it does overcome your lungs' defences.

[gone-ot]

...any "coincidence" in the fact that EPA has mandated tighter particulates -- which includes carbon soot -- regulations for vehicles, including diesels?

[Diesel_Dave]

I'm not sure what the "take-away" was supposed to be from this study? That you shouldn't breathe in diesel exhaust gas? I coulda told you that. Same goes your gasoline exhaust, flue gas, candle fumes, etc.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by Diesel_Dave

I'm not sure what the "take-away" was supposed to be from this study? That you shouldn't breathe in diesel exhaust gas? I coulda told you that.

You don't have to sniff up the tailpipe to breathe in the particulates.
They're so small and light they float in the air.

Concentrations are fairly high either side of the motorways.
And our brilliant politicians allowed these to run right next to or even through cities or allowed construction alongside the motorways ...

[cfg83]

euromodder -

Originally Posted by euromodder

You don't have to sniff up the tailpipe to breathe in the particulates.
They're so small and light they float in the air.

Concentrations are fairly high either side of the motorways.
And our brilliant politicians allowed these to run right next to or even through cities or allowed construction alongside the motorways ...

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what kind of breathing problems I have down the line with my 710 trucker freeway commute :

Environmental Protection Agency -- Particulate Matter (PM-10)

Acidic PM-10 can also damage human-made materials and is a major cause of reduced visibility in many parts of the U.S. New scientific studies suggest that fine particles (smaller than 2.5 micrometers in diameter) may cause serious adverse health effects.

It makes me want to perfect a "mouth gill" where I breath through my mouth using a wet sponge that captures the particulates and/or channels them through the digestive tract. Ha ha, sounds very Dune Stillsuit-ish.

CarloSW2

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by cfg83

It makes me want to perfect a "mouth gill" where I breath through my mouth using a wet sponge that captures the particulates and/or channels them through the digestive tract. Ha ha, sounds very Dune Stillsuit-ish.

CarloSW2

...is sand-spice (silicosis) carcinogetic?

[Duffman]

Ha Ha not sure, but Silica has become a because a huge deal with my employer. So much so that they are doing monitoring.