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Old 12-19-2007, 08:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
Michigandiesel
 
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Diesel Metro?

I sent a request to a JDM company asking if they have diesel engines that would fit into a Metro. Has anyone tried fitting a diesel into a Metro? I learned just this evening that the 4 banger Suzuki transmission sits further to the outside than the one in a 3 banger, so that could allow more room between the shock towers. Any thoughts on this approch to even better milage? For the record, I had a 1990 Metro and will be picking up my next one, a 1998 tomorrow morning. Paul

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Old 12-19-2007, 08:49 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
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Hi Paul -

Other than this novelty diesel conversion, I don't know of anyone who has actually gone through with a Metro based diesel swap.



It's a Changfa 10hp peak mill, and I think he may need to optimize things a wee bit more.

Besides that one, I get regular hits at MetroMPG.com from a thread at a TDI forum because someone there was also considering a Metro diesel swap, but if you check the thread, you'll see it generated a lot of discussion, but no results:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=161256

Are you only going to use the Metro for a conversion, or will you drive it as a gasser?

And... welcome to the site!
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:50 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Queso Pequeño - '90 Geo Metro Convertible LSi

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There are samurai diesel conversions out there...
http://www.rocky-road.com/diesel.html

I've seen the 1.6L samurai engine stuffed down into a metro before, so it might be possible. Still, these are for North/South RWD vehicles, not a transverse mounted FWD. Are you set on using biodiesel? What's the inspiration?

Last edited by dissimilation; 12-20-2007 at 10:57 AM..
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I would have no preference for bio or normal diesel. The idea was to get the efficiency of a small diesel in a small car and see just how good that could be. I bought a 1998 Metro today and got home a sad person. I had stopped for gas and looked under the hood of my new car in better light than I had had when I picked it up. The whole subassembly with the A frames had been welded back together and covered with undercoating. There is a piece of re-rod welded between the A frames to keep them from speading out. Has anyone tried replacing the whole subframe and A frames? I could try welding in a better brace. The one they put in interfeers with the exhaust pipe. I also discovered that there is not catalytic convertera and no second or third O2 sensor. If there is one, will the computer get enough data to control the FA mixture? I need some help and some encouragement. Thanks, Paul
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
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Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

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Sorry to be the glass-half-empty guy, but... Oh no! The dreaded control arm mount rust. I hope you didn't pay a lot for the car.

I don't know anyone who's repaired that problem. I do know of 3 people (myself included) who had to give up on otherwise decent cars because of it. I originally intended to try patching it, but found once I started picking at the rust that the whole "subframe" was going.

As for the O2 sensor questions, that one's beyond me. Maybe someone else will chime in.

I think the front one is more important for the A/F ratio, and the second one is just there to make sure the cat is working properly. Is the car's check engine light on?
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Old 12-21-2007, 10:21 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Subframe repair

The repair has been done by the previous owner. It looks like good work and lots of it. Yes, I paid $1500.00. That is about a grand less than these cars are going for on e-bay, but lot's more than I would have spent on a car with these issues. A muddy parking lot is not the place to evaluate a car I admit.

My thought is to improve the cross car bracing that is there now. I can make it more solid and remove an interfeerence with the exhaust pipe.

Now, if any other forum members want to sell me a solid Metro, please speak up and I can let this one go with full disclosure.

The other issue with this car is one poor rear strut and a rust patch in the rear left wheel well. Has anyone done a several square inch patch on these cars? What did you use? I was thinking of galvanized metal, with tar and self tapping screws. Paul
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Old 12-21-2007, 10:29 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 54.01 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
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If it's not structural, screws should work.

I repaired the floor of the '92 we used as the host vehicle for the electric conversion. I brazed the patches in with a torch. Photos: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...razing#post431
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has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
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Old 12-21-2007, 10:33 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 54.01 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 73.57 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,837
Thanked 5,698 Times in 2,944 Posts
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ol+arm#post259

Another picture of the problem with the control arm mount on the car we gave up on - the mount wasn't only laterally out of place, it had shifted aft as well.
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Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
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www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Unhappy This calls for Preparation H!

OH MY GOODNESS, You got yer can ripped out by an unscrupulous seller. I'm sorry to hear that. I am a welder and I wouldn't attempt to fix that mess.

Three weeks ago I bought a car just like yours for $450 with no rust - It had hit a deer. I have been driving it every day that I can until today. I tore it apart, straightened all the sheetmetal out, primed and painted it. Weird, the metal is so thin you can pull it out by hand! I replaced the headlights, hood, bumper & support. I have less than $700 TOTAL invested incl. tax & reg. It gets 38mpg which is nearly double that of my 2006 FORD Ranger.

About your rust problem: Time to unmask - clean off the undercoating with a spray on paint stripper and check out their work. Pay somebody at a body shop that $25 - $50 if need be to look carefully at it. If it won't hold up, then undercoat it and sell it. Be honest to buyers as Hell is only half full.

About the O2 sensors: Most national autoparts stores will read your codes for free. If the O2 wires are to be found, then buy the sensors and splice the wires. Be prepared, they are NOT CHEAP. If the Check Engine light is NOT on and codes are stored, then look to see if the seller removed the bulb from the instrument cluster. A cheap trick indeed.

I have the GM three manual set for this car and worked in an auto electric shop in my younger days. If this car is a keeper, then buy these manuals and invest in a multimeter.

Keep me abreast of your progress and findings.

Good Luck,
Cowspots
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:25 AM   #10 (permalink)
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IMHO diesels create a lot of vibration, and good mounts are required. the 3cylinder 20 hp sizes are probably as small as you can go and still hold the vehicle together. That's assuming solid metal. yanmar, kubota, mitsubishi, isuzu, mazda, cat, they aren't cheap.

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