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Old 05-15-2009, 01:24 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation Diesel vs. Hybrid vs. Gas: Who Wins?

more...

...What About A Normal Engine?

This may come as a surprise, but traditional internal combustion engines represent a solid green choice based on their improving fuel economy and comparatively low cost.

"Technologies such as dual variable valve timing, reduced pumping losses, and improved engine control systems will be where mileage improvements in internal combustion engines come from," Toyota's Dan Yerace, a senior powertrain engineer, said. "Also, the trend toward more forward gears in transmissions will contribute to mileage gains."

What this means is that a variety of technical improvements will make gasoline engines more efficient. Additionally, by adding more gears to automatic transmissions (including overdrive ratios), engines can run more slowly at any given speed, thus saving even more fuel.

According to Volkswagen's Group Powertrain Engineer Wolfgang Hatz, internal combustion engines will continue to improve. Hatz estimates that the fuel economy of gasoline engines will improve 15 percent in the coming years. This is a figure confirmed by engineers from other manufacturers.

Both Ford Motor Company and General Motors are already introducing gasoline engines with a new type of fuel injection that enhances fuel economy. Their engines utilize direct injection that helps boost mpg up to 20 percent...

+15-20% in regular old ICE tech is what we can look forward to. Of course, we can also expect better packaging (size, weight, aero, tranny) to exceed the 15-20.

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Old 05-15-2009, 05:08 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Frank I see also improvement on ICE. One of the new things on valve timing and lift of the valve is coming from Sweden. A company called Cargine in Lund is making a controleble air cylinder with oil damping to control timing and lift. I use one of their cylinders for an other application. It really wotks nice , you can set via SW each wanted timing and lift and lift duration.
This could be of big importance for optimizing the ICE in combination with more gears.
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Old 05-15-2009, 09:12 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Doesn't aerodynamics make a bigger difference? The Aerocivic, despite its old engine, manages 95MPG.
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:15 AM   #4 (permalink)
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But of course the hybrid is not a matter of "vs". Make your gas or diesel engine as efficient as you possibly can, and you will still get efficiency gains by putting that more-efficient engine in a hybrid car.
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Old 05-15-2009, 12:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Aerocivic's 90-day is now 66.

Quite the spread between what Ernie sees in the future and what the auto engineers see.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Diesel is the simplest solution but I have no faith in the robustness of urea systems and PM2.5 filters. I suspect most of those will end up removed.

More forward speeds and an end to the torque converter are big factors.
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Old 05-25-2009, 02:21 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiHaoMike View Post
Doesn't aerodynamics make a bigger difference? The Aerocivic, despite its old engine, manages 95MPG.
Imagine if the Aerocivic had a small diesel like the VW 1-Litre concept car. It had a Cd of 0.159 and the Aerocivic is 0.17, that's only a difference of 0.011. The 1-Litre had a 1 cylinder air-cooled diesel making about 8 hp and 13 ft/lbs of torque. It made 235 mpg.





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Old 05-25-2009, 02:22 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Better consider CdA and weight.
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Old 05-25-2009, 02:26 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Better consider CdA and weight.
Good point, I just found that the 1-Litre only weighs 290 kg. But still...
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Old 05-30-2009, 02:40 AM   #10 (permalink)
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as materials are a chance to be very strong now:
full single firing engines, properly matched intake, and valvetrain can return super stoich like the days of old still leaving us scratching our heads.Simplifying moving parts, (2 valve heads is #1) I also very much agree about torque convertors, even a v8 gas is made a real slob because of it.The fwd v6 american is an f1 screamer going nowhere in drive. And the return of real time atomization, injectors take a hike, and carbs get the real technology. it basically left off with a feedback and old fashioned choke for cold starts. It could be genious today.

benz crank for v8s, transition a world standard of four cyliners to the 3 main boxer already famous even with old parts...

maximizing torque and ridiculing hp numbers is a big manly step that keeps getting backshelfed as well.

all trucks should get a v8 cat, not detroit crazy, the cat 3408 type.

13 inch wheels extincted for all american roadworthy vehicles.

independent rear, and front suspensions, live axles for work vehicles...and even then, the independents all around have proven amazing at times..live axle may not even be necessary.

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