DIY Volt Hybrid - Open ReVolt style

[bennelson]

I just tried the "remote start" feature.

The generator has a pigtail with a 4-pin connector on it. That connects to an optional control panel that would be installed in the cab of the RV. I have the troubleshooting and installation manuals, which show the color codes of the wires. I tried jumpering the "crank" wire to the "ground" wire as the illustration shows that the start switch does that. It DIDN'T make the starter go. I did hear a small "click" inside the generator. Sounded like a relay.

Perhaps all four wires have to be connected to the remote panel, or it won't work right? The four wires are crank, kill, ground, and "running" (which runs a light indicating the generator is on)

Here's the generator, mostly reassembled.


On the left, you can see the four-pin connector for the remote start panel. The orange hose is the LP fuel input.



I propped the generator up on a pair of 2x4s. The generator would normally be mounting on rails in an RV, and sort of hang down from them. On the bottom here, you can see the oil filter and the flywheel/cooling fan. The muffler also mounts under here.

I also dug up the piece of sheet metal with the ID plate on it. If you want specs on the genny, here they are.



These generators were originally made about 20 miles from my house. Kinda cool to have one of that brand for my project.

Here's a little video for you as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBA4fM7jYv0

[bennelson]

I stopped by the hardware store last night on the way to class, and picked up a few items.

I got an outdoor rated 70 amp, 4-circuit breaker box, a 20 amp GFI breaker, and a 20 amp outlet and box for it. Also a new plug for my charger (I melted the old one...)

The generator installation manual shows the output of the generator feeding the main circuit breaker box for the RV. That then feeds the individual branch circuits in the RV.

SO, I figured for my hybrid project, I should do something similar. Also, if I ever want to use the generator alone for other uses (home blackout, electricity at remote party sites, etc.) I will want a breaker and outlet on there anyways.

This helps keep everything safe, clean, and modular.

If something doesn't work right in my Hybrid design, the worst that's going to happen is that the breaker pops.

I figure the breaker box and outlet could be mounted on a piece of plywood that is bolted to a side of the generator that doesn't have air intakes or instrumentation on it.

Also, I DID order the demand regulator for the generator from that place listed in a link above. I will still eventually need a fuel shut off-solenoid. Those get pricey fast. I tried looking a few generic ones up, and saw prices of $50 to $150!

I also need the primary regulator for the tank. I am hoping to dig up one of those and the solenoid somewhere for less money than buying new.

I am also told that a gas grill tank won't work for this project, as they can't give enough flow. I have a larger tank as well, but it's too big for the project. Maybe I can trade it in for a physically smaller, high-flow tank!?

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

An 11WC regulator is not hard to find. That's the pressure 90% or propane applications use, so it's just a matter of finding a big enough one. Unfortunately there really are not many application that use bigger ones than the standard "grill size".
Are your positive that the regulator is the problem? That is an rather small engine, and grill regs can put out quite a lot of gas. Does it seem to be getting some gas, and if so is it burning it?

I have a hard time believing that you can't get enough flow out of one of those tanks... Sounds like something a sales person would say... But that said, I think the best tank for you would be one made for forklifts, they come in (if I remember correctly) 33lb and 40lb sizes, and are made to be use horizontally. But they are really pricey in comparison to the grill ones.


I have an old LP solenoid I was going to offer for an unbeatable price, but then I realized; it runs on 120VAC, so you could only turn it on when the generator was already on... not so useful... (I don't know if it's big enough anyway)

Why do you need the valve anyway? You could just keep the LP tank valve off unless you know you'll want to use it. If you find that to be a pita you could always add on in later... or does the carb just leak propane when it's not running and has pressure?

edit: If you don't know; the proper way to open a propane tank for any purpose is to give it just a 1/4 of a turn. This way it can be shut off with just one turn of your wrist if something goes wrong (and you can get to the tank).

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

Okay, it would be good to have a ball park idea of how much propane this thing uses. So I'm just making up most of these numbers, if anyone has a better idea of what would be accurate please plug those in.
Okay so at full load it can put out 3400watts, so lets say the genorator and pulley has an ef of 65%, so it would need about 5230watts from the engine.
Giving the engine an ef of 15% it would take about 35,000 watts of propane, which is equivalent to about 120,000BTU per hour. A gallon of propane has about 91500 BTUs so that's 1.33gal/hr and there are 36 cubic feet of propane in one gal of liquid propane so:

It will take something like 48 cubic feet of propane per hour to run this generator at full load.

I think I've used nearly that from a grill tank before (a really big burner that was run at 7psi off of a welding regulator). But that is well above the capacity of a normal grill regulator (i think).

[bennelson]

The manual says it requires a regulator that will provide at least 67 cubic feet per hour.

I have a couple of different manuals - installation, troubleshooting, etc.

The installation manual, which lists the 67 cu feet number, is for the NP-50, the next size up generator.

So, I don't think Dr. Jerryriggers numbers are far off.

Yep, 11 in of wc is a common pressure of regulators - it's just a matter of finding one with the right flow.

[davidbr13]

Ben, when I got my first EV back in 2000, it had a K & W charger. They are long since out of business. Mine was corroded, and I had to send it to the factory for repair. They were barely in business then, but did good work if you could get hold of them.

I have long since lost the contact information, but Brian Klosterman is the name of the guy I contacted. He is one of the founders from what I understand, and also runs (ran) the engineering portion.

The K & W is fairly inefficient. It uses phase shifting of the AC waveform to vary voltage, like a light dimmer. It is one of the smallest and lightest available, though.

Running it from a generator may burn it out, like permanently. I'd look at putting together a big bridge recitfier (size by the peak voltage and current - but at 120 VAC and 30A, that still isn't too hard to come by) and a box of capacitors to connect the genny to, and connect the output of that to the battery pack. The ev discussion list (specifically Lee Hart) would have the details on exactly how to size and select everything. They might even have better ideas on something small and light to use to get the most efficiency possible out of the setup.

There are a couple entries in the ev photo album where an AC motor and a box of capcitors is used to function as a range extender for an EV. I forget the guy's name, but he is in Canada, and has a webpage on the setup.

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

Okay, so I did a little research and most BBQ regs are made to run up to 100,000 BTU's.
Unless you have an extra wimpy one I would think you should be able to run the generator with out any load. I'm thinking you have some other problem
here is a cheap grill reg rated for 160,000btu (that's about 64.25 cu. ft./hr)

[bennelson]

As of this moment, I don't have the "demand" regulator.

That one is required to make the generator run. I have run straight from a BBQ bottle and regulator for short tests - it WILL fire up and produce electricity, but isn't constant, and kills quickly, unless you can manually adjust the flow of fuel to the generator.

I have done this experimentally, and run a 70-watt light bulb successfully for up to a minute. Kinda hard to drive a car and throttle a propane bottle by hand at the same time though!

Once I get the fancy regulator in and hooked up, then I can experiment with how big of a primary regulator I need, and if a 20lb BBQ bottle will be up to the task or not.

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

Originally Posted by bennelson

As of this moment, I don't have the "demand" regulator.

That one is required to make the generator run. I have run straight from a BBQ bottle and regulator for short tests - it WILL fire up and produce electricity, but isn't constant, and kills quickly, unless you can manually adjust the flow of fuel to the generator.

I have done this experimentally, and run a 70-watt light bulb successfully for up to a minute. Kinda hard to drive a car and throttle a propane bottle by hand at the same time though!

Once I get the fancy regulator in and hooked up, then I can experiment with how big of a primary regulator I need, and if a 20lb BBQ bottle will be up to the task or not.

Oh good, I thought you had the gas on in the vid.
I also found that 50,000BTU regs are not uncommon (which you may have, it's rating should be stamped on it somewhere)

I don't think you really need to re-regulate 11wc to 11wc, as long as your primary is up to the task you should be fine and dandy. Unless you want to run a high pressure reg as your primary I just don't see why you need it.

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

So on closer inspection those secondary regs look very fancy, and I can't seem to find any info on them, so I guess it would be best to use one. Just make sure you use a primary that matches it. It should have some info about proper input pressure stamped on it.

I don't think you'll have any problem running off BBQ tanks, worst case; you'll need two. (after all that's what RV's have)