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Old 08-06-2011, 06:07 PM   #11 (permalink)
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^^^ what he said!

My experience, in however many years this forum has been operating, is that rational political debate sans name-calling is as elusive as the fabled unicorn.

It always goes down hill.

I know that lots of people see EM as their water cooler, so it's natural to want to expand the discussion.

But I'd prefer it if we stick to "babble about cars, batteries, instruments, FE..."

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Old 08-06-2011, 06:48 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'm here for the hypermiling and ecomodding, but in certain ways there is overlap.

How can we not be tempted to talk about policies that relate to petroleum consumption? These topics are certainly relevant.

Admittedly, there are occasional tangents that are not be relevant, but I don't mind.
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Old 08-06-2011, 06:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
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As I tapped, its only an idea. There are "usual suspects" who go for this all the time. So if we are agreed its a bad idea then fine.

I reserve the right to tell those who do descend into this to "bog off" which is a reasonably rude (and at the same time not so rude) suggestion here in the UK. I have done this already so I will need to be banned already.

As would PW for joining these discussions.
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Old 08-06-2011, 08:34 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Politics ruins everything it touches, so PLEASE do not bring it into this excellent site!!!!!
 
Old 08-06-2011, 09:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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MetroMPG -

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
^^^ what he said!

My experience, in however many years this forum has been operating, is that rational political debate sans name-calling is as elusive as the fabled unicorn.

It always goes down hill.

...
Ha ha, you could have a unicorn-transfer countdown such that whenever a political debate arises on a thread, the question becomes, how many posts does it take until the political thread is moved to the Unicorn Corral?

I liken it to a kind of tootsie roll pop thing :



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Old 08-07-2011, 12:23 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Not to mention that the words "liberal" and "conservative" have really changed a lot over the years. A "classic liberal" for instance, is really more of a libertarian - quite a big difference. For that reason, I frame things in terms of government reach: role or restraint?
When is the last time any government voluntarily restricted or reduced its own power? When will it do so in the future? Will it ever?

No, never in our lifetimes, unless we insist upon removing that power from those who have it. But with human nature being what it is, and given the nature of government and media influence upon us we never will, for we have been led to believe we will somehow come out ahead in voting 'for' a government that will wield more power over those whom we disagree with, whatever our POV may be. So we never can, nor ever do attain more power, we only relinquish it incrementally and continuously. Only the preeminent power of the government itself ever increases and it continues to do so relentlessly, no matter which political party we endorse.

We have been hoodwinked into the perpetual endorsement of an illusion; those who govern us continue to instill and endorse our own self-delusion, increasing their power over us through cajoling us for our votes.

"Sitting on a sofa on a Sunday afternoon
Going to the candidates debate
Laugh about it, shout about it
When you've got to choose
Every way you look at it, you lose." (Paul Simon)
 
Old 08-07-2011, 12:31 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Hey, lets all be nice to each other, even if we don't agree. Does that sound like a plan ?
"Can't we all get along?" That's the Rodney King philosophy of social relations.

Guess where Rodney is today?

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I leave it to the community to decide.
It is a very thin line between democracy and mob rule. Majority rule is not immune from tyrannical thought and action. There is power in numbers; but that is not the same as tolerance. And all politics is based upon the former, not the latter.
 
Old 08-07-2011, 12:39 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Political "threads" only turn into name calling and other stuff we really shouldn't say.
 
Old 08-07-2011, 01:15 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arragonis View Post
Another issue is of course when does something become political. e.g. I disagree with some people on the environment - and no I don't want a debate here. Is that political ? Unfortunately (for me at least) some people believe it is and some people don't - even that is possibly an argument.
And some people will make it political whether it is or not, and accuse you of being "in lock step with a Leftist agenda", even if your actual reasons for being a tree hugger - or a lover of good food and music composed mostly by long-dead white European men - could easily peg you as an elitist somewhere to the right of Ghengis Khan :-)
 
Old 08-07-2011, 01:28 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Political "threads" only turn into name calling and other stuff we really shouldn't say.
What is the "other stuff we really shouldn't say"? Who decides what shouldn't be said? Name every society in which that practice has been evoked, demanding that unpopular views of any minority be silenced. What do those cultures, societies or states have in common?

"A thing like that shouldn't be allowed."

That sentiment is the essence of all authoritarianism, providing a fertile environment for intolerance to take root.

 
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