Do we need a politics thread...

[Arragonis]

...so everyone interested can go argue there instead of elsewhere / everywhere ?

(and yes, I know I have indulged in the odd discussion or three previously, I am a reformed member now )

EDIT - and I spelt it wrong too

[cleanspeed1]

It would be great if it bring some answers to problems. We get so hot about things yet there seems to be no resolution to the issues.

I will say this, though. I love it when Paliament is in session and everyone is going at each other. Like a good football or rugby match. We're too "civilised" over here.

If the US Congress were to let loose like that and had some good play by play commentary, people would get into it.

[jamesqf]

The problem is that some people* seem to see everything through "political goggles", and so will always inject politics into things that really were intended to be non-political discussions.

*The one(s) to whom "left" and "liberal" have become generalized swearwords, so that anything they dislike gets prefixed with them as adjectives, irrespective of the actual political content - if any :-)

[cleanspeed1]

This could be good if there are rules in terms of conduct. Keep the name calling out. Stick to the issues being discussed. Support views with numbers and facts. No talking points. Offer solutions to the issues. If things get out of hand, apologize quick or cut the thread. Have respect, and give respect.

Think before you write.

[Kodak]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

*The one(s) to whom "left" and "liberal" have become generalized swearwords, so that anything they dislike gets prefixed with them as adjectives, irrespective of the actual political content - if any :-)

Not to mention that the words "liberal" and "conservative" have really changed a lot over the years. A "classic liberal" for instance, is really more of a libertarian - quite a big difference. For that reason, I frame things in terms of government reach: role or restraint?

There was a time when the liberals wanted to expand government and spread moral diplomacy to other nations (think President Wilson's 14 points). Today, there is a lot of criticism of our foreign policy coming from the left. Plus, today the left is far more likely to pass social bans and regulations (everything from certain foods to licenses etc.). So we see a shift in "liberalism" to a government with more social involvement and less military involvement.

Someone once said that our political system has become a team sport (sorry, forget who said it). So many people just look for reasons to justify their party's decisions in order to declare victory. Sometimes the issues and consequences are ignored.

[Arragonis]

My thought on the original posting was to have a kind of lightning conductor thread where those who wish to discuss it all could go, and the rest of us who maybe want to babble about cars, batteries, instruments, FE or even daily moans and smiles could do so.

One thing worth noting is that the Internet does not stop at the Pacific or and Atlantic. Your (as in the US) political system and terminology is meaningless more or less to the rest of us which can lead to other arguments over, well, a difference in the understanding of words really.

Its just a thought I suppose.

[cleanspeed1]

I can see what you're talking about, and totally agree.

[cfg83]

Arragonis -

(I fixed the spelling)

As I always say to the point of Ad-Nauseum, I think that mutual respect towards each other's POV on politics needs to be paramount for it to work. For instance, when I think of politics, I try to use the root of the word, polite, as a base for my discussion.

If we could keep that as the operative paradigm of the thread, then that would be a big help. I know that takes the "fun" out of it for some people, but then we don't learn anything from each other.

There is a fantastic scene from Chicago Hope where Mandy Patinkin is arguing with a lawyer that has taken over the hospital. The camera is doing a 360 pan around the actors as they go at each other. Finally, the lawyer runs out of arguments and just say something like "jerk". At that point Mandy says "I win" and walks away. I love that because the moment one of the debaters is reduced to name calling, he or she has "lost" the debate.

CarloSW2

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by cfg83

...At that point Mandy says "I win" and walks away. I love that because the moment one of the debaters is reduced to name calling, he or she has "lost" the debate.

You are of course correct, I suppose another issue is the names being used. To some people they are badges and to some maybe insults. Another issue is of course when does something become political. e.g. I disagree with some people on the environment - and no I don't want a debate here. Is that political ? Unfortunately (for me at least) some people believe it is and some people don't - even that is possibly an argument.

For me I just hate (potentially) falling out with people who post smart stuff just because we disagree about something else - and yes, I am an offender too. TBH though I have found myself disagreeing here with someone on one thread and at the same time exchanging useful stuff on another one at the same time as though they are completely seperate conversations - respect wins.

As I tapped earlier and I have tapped this before, my idea is to send these kinds of debates there. But the "rules" about that are difficult to define.

Hey, lets all be nice to each other, even if we don't agree. Does that sound like a plan ? And if two or more members start a ping-pong battle we send them here, like I did on the Annoyances thread. We see how it goes (unofficial policy I hasten to add). Maybe we also label the thread with "ignore if you like".

I leave it to the community to decide.

[Piwoslaw]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

As I tapped earlier and I have tapped this before, my idea is to send these kinds of debates there. But the "rules" about that are difficult to define.

I tried to check the forum rules, but apparently they can only be accessed while registering. Since I am already a registered user, I dunno how to see them
But most forums, including this one iirc, do not allow discussions on political, racist, religious, etc. topics.

If this is the case, then Arragonis should be kicked out since he started this thread, nah-nah-nah

I totally understand the reason for this thread, and I am all for reducing the amount of political talk that pollutes the forum. BUT I know enough of human nature to know that a political thread, or even subforum, wouldn't help clean up the rest of the forum, but would produce a lot of mud-slinging. I'm willing to bet that any politically-centered thread would have to be closed by the mods before its fifth page.

I love discussing all sorts of stuff with fellow EMers, but there are other forums dedicated to politics and anyone who wants to talk about it should go there. If you feel like getting into something deeper, then just send a PM to whoever you want to argue with, with a link to a forum where you can talk, or send him/her your private e-mail.