Does it frustrate you too?

[gone-ot]

...sorry, but the annual technology CHANGE is not the same as a technology IMPROVEMENT.

...unfortunately, too often, it's merely change-for-the-sake-of-change instead of ANY meaniful change in improvement, efficiency, economy, or usefulness.

...remember when VW only made "changes" when they were "needed" regardless of the time of the sales year? Now, it's an annual, 'one-ups-manship' change-fest, merely because it's a "new" model year.

[cleanspeed1]

OTM, the folks are bored, they have nothing to do, and the things they want to do they can't do.

Maybe we can get a crew together and visit our OEMs and ask them what the hell is wrong with them.

[d0sitmatr]

Originally Posted by cleanspeed1

O

Maybe we can get a crew together and visit our OEMs and ask them what the hell is wrong with them.

you have no idea how many times Ive wished to do that very thing.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by d0sitmatr

what about Ford having 2.3L ecodiesels in other countries that see upwards of 40mpg stock ?

I have asked this question here many many times only to be told that nobody in the US will stand Diesel engines for all sorts of reasons - polution, noise, smell, anything.

Yet in Paris last week which seemingly had 80%+ Diesel cars and trucks in it, I saw more people jogging than I have seen in any other city in the world, including NY.

[d0sitmatr]

ive also been asking that question since I learned of the engines. seeing some of the models being offered overseas from a US based company and the mpg they are able to attain simply defies my logic.

I wish I still had friends serving in the military, Id ask them to ship one of those diesel engines back to the states for me
(they can avoid customs charges as well as import fee's)
or even an entire car

[Arragonis]

I have seriously considered settng up a business getting hold of LHD cars from Europe and selling them as imports into the US, not just Diesels but other models too. Mainly cars already sold in the US such as the Aveo, Fiesta, Focus, Astra, Vectra as well as many Nissans, Hondas, Toyotas, Kias, Hyundais and so on. We get so many smaller engined and longer geared models.

Examples ?

How about an Aveo 1.2 with the same manual 5sp as the US 1.6, or maybe a Honda Fit (aka Jazz here) 1.4 manual, or how about a Fiesta 1.4 or 1.6 TDCi Diesel or a 1.25 Petrol manual. Yaris 1.3 or, if you really really want it, a 1.0 3 cylinder manual - 68hp and 60 mpg.

Or maybe something smaller - Ford Ka (smaller than a Fiesta, same platform as a FIAT 500) or perhaps a Toyota Aygo or maybe a Kia Picanto - sort of Sub-Rio sized hatchback - 67MPG (imp) rating, or Hyundai i10 which is a kind of sister to the Picanto - the base one has stop start and makes 65 MPG (imp) urban.

But no, apparently the US, which had the "slower than a lot of base Euro hatchbacks" Geo Metro, cannot handle cars which are so slow.

Hmmm.

[Diesel_Dave]

The resistance to diesel passenger cars in the US has frustrated me for a long time as well. There's been a few limited successes (Ford Escort, VW Rabitt, VW TDI's), but not a whole lot. For some reason, people just seem to have an aversion to them. Part of it I think is the "polluting, noisy, smelly" thing you referenced. All of which, by the way are pretty much untrue with modern diesels. Part of it is the increased initial cost (Americans love cheap things--sometime to a fault). Some people blame it on GM's pitifull attempt a "diesel-ifying" the 350 engine. One problem is that most of the American automakers don't have a clue how to design diesels properly.

One of the thing that I think is ironic is that one of the biggest reasons that diesels are big sellers in Europe isn't the FE, but the "sportiness" that comes with all that low end turbodiesel torque.

As far as your idea to start a business "American-izing" European diesels, while I wish you could, the good old EPA stands in your way. And to think that people think the EPA promotes good FE!

[cfg83]

Arragonis -

I think that focusing on just the taller manual trannies would be a good start. Swapping a tranny that is bolt-on compatible sounds like an easier operation than a whole engine.

CarloSW2

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by Diesel_Dave

As far as your idea to start a business "American-izing" European diesels, while I wish you could, the good old EPA stands in your way. And to think that people think the EPA promotes good FE!

For the Diesels a lot of those sold here get better emissions than TDIs do - take the PSA HDI series for example, which is sold in Volvos and Fords - or the FIAT Multijet which is also sold in Fords and GMs.

For the petrol models, they mostly get better than EPA ratings for emissions as they are also sold in Japan which has tighter regs (AFAIK) than the US or Europe, and in places like South Korea etc. which also has tight emissions standards.

Originally Posted by cfg83

Arragonis -

I think that focusing on just the taller manual trannies would be a good start. Swapping a tranny that is bolt-on compatible sounds like an easier operation than a whole engine.

CarloSW2

Maybe you misunderstand - these cars are sold here as I described - no swaps needed, they come from the factory like that. My idea would be (for e.g.) to get a LHD Aveo with a 1.2 Manual from Belgium and ship it to the US unregistered. It has a catalyst and can use US standard petrol and meet EPA emissions no bother - this is the same model sold in Korea, Japan, China etc.

[Arragonis]

PS - the issue would be making a profit on selling an economy car for probably more than the US models would sell for. A European spec Aveo costs more Euro than the straight conversion between the USD/Euro and the US list price. Same for the Honda Fit/Jazz or Yaris.

Example - a Prius in the US costs ~$25K, in the UK it costs ~£26K which is ~$32k for the same spec model.

These figures are ~ because I can't recall the exact figures from the websites but it was something like this.

If I was a business though I wouldn't buy @ retail prices, it would be dealer. But if the $/Euro swings the wrong way then stock may soar or sink in value and profits killed.

Which is why GM failed to make money on the Astra / Vectra models imported from Europe to the US and why BMW makes cars in the US.