E85 Conversion Kit?

[Soichiro]

I was looking around the other day and happened to come across these: E85 Conversion Kits Change2E85.com

I thought it looked like a cool idea, and was wondering if anyone actually had any experience with something like this? Also if there's a cheaper alternative, since in a 40 mpg car with E85 running 50 cents/gallon cheaper than gas, it would take around 24,000 miles to break even if this conversion kit costs $300.

[shovel]

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post293400

Same kit they sell on change2e85.com

[kir_kenix]

As an alternative you might try blending ethanol in your existing vehicle until you find a "sweet spot" that your vehicle runs great on AND you return good mileage. Typical blenders report finding that sweet spot somewhere between e-20 and e-30. My buddy has a Hyundai Accent and he runs straight e-85 every tank.

I blend myself (or use a blender pump when available, but they are few and far between) and have found that e-30 returns comparable or slightly better FE then 89 octane e-10 that I used to run.

I would bet that the ECU in your Elantra will correct for the density differences in the fuel and that your fuel injectors can currently handle at least 50% ethanol in stock form. The only way I could see this tripping a Check Engine light for running lean is if you ran WOT frequently.

[Soichiro]

shovel: Thanks for the link, although it also seems like the same price as at change2e85.com.

kenix: Thanks, I wasn't sure if that would work or not. Sounds like it's worth a try at least. I did the math and to get close to e-30 I should be using 1 gallon of e-85 per 2 gallons of e-10, so I'll give it a shot next time I'm at the pump.

[roosterk0031]

I've played with blends quite a bit, Stratus follows the energy curve, no sweet spot for it.

The 2 FFV I've had are more energy efficent with E85 then E10, meaning mileage went down but not as much as expected by the energy content.

Running the numbers is pretty easy if you just focus on the E. 1 gallon E85 has .85 gallon E, 2 gallon E10 has 0.2 gallons so 1.05 gal E in 3 gallons total = 1.05/3.0 = 35%

Measuring E content of blends is pretty easy as well. Take a calibrated cylinder fill 1/4 to half full with water, add same amount of your fuel blend. Mix, let stand, water & E will separate to bottom, so if you started with 100 ml water & 100 ml fuel, and now have 125 ml water & E you had a blend of E25. (I've never done it but that's how it should work).

[shovel]

Originally Posted by Soichiro

shovel: Thanks for the link, although it also seems like the same price as at change2e85.com.

Same kit, same price - I just provided the link to answer your questions about anyone having experience with 'em. I don't have any connection to the company except that I bought stuff from them once.

The kit extends injector pulses so your car's ECU goes into negative fuel trim for straight gasoline and therefore has enough positive trim available to maintain stoichiometry on E85. Simple, but it works well.

As an alternative, you may be able to increase fuel rail pressure with a new fuel pressure regulator - you're on your own for the math there, but it would have essentially the same effect. Or cross-reference injectors with a higher flow rate (lbs/hr) - there aren't many different styles of fuel injectors so this is a pretty common practice, for example we used to put Ford V8 injectors in Jeep I6's to attain a smoother idle and a bit more highway pull on long hills.

My '02 grand cherokee has the H.O. motor, whose injectors flow 3.3lb/hr greater than the non-H.O. variant of the same displacement motor. The result? Non-H.O. versions trim to +25 and illuminate CEL on E85, while H.O.'s trim to <+18 and operate exceptionally well.

[2000mc]

Originally Posted by Soichiro

in a 40 mpg car with E85 running 50 cents/gallon cheaper than gas, it would take around 24,000 miles to break even if this conversion kit costs $300.

assuming you get the same mileage as gasoline?

[roosterk0031]

Based on my 2002 suburban after 50,000 miles of mixed E10 & E85 use, I'd expect 15% loss in mpg IIRC 15 down to 12.5 (data on fuelly.com) 2010 Impala not as much data but leaning the same.

My new Cobalt isn't FFV, but newer HHR's are with same engine, I'm going to run the part numbers and see what's different. After I get a good baseline with E0 & E10.

[Soichiro]

Are that Suburban and Impala flexfuel compatible? If so, that's more of a drop than I would have expected from a fully flexfuel vehicle. I would have expected maybe 5-10% on a fully compatible vehicle.

[roosterk0031]

Both FFV vehicles, by energy content E10 to E85 is about 25-27% less, actual mpg drop about 15-18%, if E85 was roughly 20% cheaper I used it. If you check out EPA website they basically rate FFV cars at 1/3 less with E85 than E0.

I wish 5-10% drop, a North or South dakota University study with non & FFV showed some getting equal to better mpg with between 20-40%E. It's http://www.ethanol.org/pdf/contentmg...our_gallon.pdf

Highlights of the study here, search a little more to find the whole study. Basically comes down to trying different blends with every car to figure out if one works better. Blender pumps would make it way easier.