E85. What's the point?

[GhostWolfGT]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

When there's a little hiccup in the world economy, and gas goes to $4+ per gallon, that E85 will still sell for about $2.89. It's grasshoppers versus ants, basically.

It never crossed my mind that just because the price of a barrel goes down doesn't mean the price of ethonal does. Thanks.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by GhostWolfGT

It never crossed my mind that just because the price of a barrel goes down doesn't mean the price of ethonal does.

Though some Diesel fuel and petroleum-based lube oils are still used from the cropping to the distillation...

[H-Man]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Though some Diesel fuel and petroleum-based lube oils are still used from the cropping to the distillation...

Here in california, E85 makes sense when a refinery catches fire and gas goes to $4-$5 a gallon (about once every 4 months it seems).

[oil pan 4]

The EPA (Ethanol Production Agency) says we need to have ethanol in our gas.

Ethanol production cost is mostly tied to corn and natural gas prices.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

The EPA (Ethanol Production Agency) says we need to have ethanol in our gas.

I don't think that's quite true. Gas needs octane boosters to work well in modern engines. Lots of things have been used for that, such as tetraethyl lead and MBTE. Those have been shown to have rather nasty environmental effects, so the EPA says don't use them. Ethanol works, is relatively cheap, and environmentally benign, so that gets used.

But E85 is a different thing than the 10% or so ethanol used as octane booster/oxygenator in normal gasoline.

[Hersbird]

But the government requires that 13 billion gallons of ethanol be blended into the fuel supply weather we need it or not. It's not the free market that chose ethanol as the octain booster.
Will Government Mandated Corn Ethanol Consumption Ever End?

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Ethanol is not a bad fuel at all, but in America it would make more sense to use Natural Gas and eventually biomethane generated at landfills and sewage treatment plants.

[oil pan 4]

Methanol is a better octane booster, would be cheaper and even more environmentally friendly.
Natural gas, coal or wood chips can be used to directly make it. No food crop needs to be grown to make it.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Methanol is a better octane booster, would be cheaper and even more environmentally friendly.

Methanol is reported to be more toxic and corrosive.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

biomethane generated at landfills and sewage treatment plants.

Turns out bio methane is full of CO2 and actually burns pretty dirty compared to natural gas.
I work with three 1500 horsepower boilers. They were all bought new and installed at the same time.
One runs up to 20% bio gas. Its only 10 years old and had been retubed.
The bio gas boiler also needs to have its tubed brushed twice as often.
The biogas feed line had to be constructed out of very expensive stainless steel. It has to be isolated from the gas circuit, charged up with compressed air and blown out once a week.

The other 2 boilers have almost as many hours and show no signs of need a retube any time this decade.

But that bio gas boiler saves between $1,000 and $3,000 per day, everyday it runs (and it runs about 350 days a year), so what ever the boil men charged for the retube was not even something that had to be though about.