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Old 12-12-2010, 04:32 PM   #211 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 04_Sentra View Post
The average temperature of the earth has gone down since 1998 but climate change doesn't just mean that the temperature is going up everywhere uniformly. It's getting warmer is some places, colder in others, wetter in some places and dryer in others. The warming is most pronounced at the poles which is why the arctic, antarctic, and greenland ice has continued to melt since 1998, though the northeast passage being open has been great for shipping and greenland is going to start serious mining operations now that that pesky ice is gone, so not everyone is complaining. Of course if you live in Bangladesh you have a more serious problem...
Point by point,

- Warming, yes I know. But guess what - the lack of warming is not shouted as loudly AS WARMING IS. Wonder why ?

- Changes - Yes, thats my point. Climate changes. It has done for ever. Where I live now was a swamp when the dinos were around.

- Northeast passage - this has been open before. Did you see the wreck discovered in the arctic circle a few years ago ? How did it get there if the frozen parts did not thaw ? Did you know Russia uses this as a trade route ?

- Why do you think Greenland is not called Whiteland ?

- Bangladesh has long had problems related to the environment. It is a marginal coastline state. Maybe we should help them develop so that they can protect themselves, but then again that will have an effect on the natural environment around them.

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Debate is great there should be debate you can't solve a problem that you don't understand and scientists that do bad science should be accountable. But, debate shouldn't be an excuse for inaction, which it often is. The same actions that combat climate change also combat other serious problems like acid rain, smog, deforestation, etc.
Debate is good. That debate needs to extend into the 'action' we seem to take. Is it really going to make a difference ? See my comment about Bangladesh above - it may have some unforseen consequences.

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Old 12-12-2010, 05:06 PM   #212 (permalink)
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...1000 years of "current" historical weather records is nothing compared to the 4.56-billion years the earth has been around.

...and, just for giggles, look up "snowball earth"
 
Old 12-12-2010, 08:49 PM   #213 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Arragonis View Post
- Warming, yes I know. But guess what - the lack of warming is not shouted as loudly AS WARMING IS. Wonder why ?
It's shouted extremely loudly, at least where i am, though this has more to do with the politics of the news outlet than anything else.

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Originally Posted by Arragonis View Post
- Changes - Yes, thats my point. Climate changes. It has done for ever. Where I live now was a swamp when the dinos were around.
Yes climate is very complicated and it has natural cycles of warming and cooling. There are cycles that last decades, those that last centuries, and those that last millennia and can mask the effects of human activity, but that isn't proof that human activity isn't having a negative effect on the planet, see earlier comment on acid rain, smog, deforestation, etc.

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Originally Posted by Arragonis View Post
- Northeast passage - this has been open before. Did you see the wreck discovered in the arctic circle a few years ago ? How did it get there if the frozen parts did not thaw ? Did you know Russia uses this as a trade route ?
I do know that Russia is using it a trade route which is why I said earlier that opening of the northeast passage was good for shipping. It was opened to ships without assistance of icebreakers for the first time in 2005. Is the ship that you are referring to the HMS Investigator? It was lost searching for the northwest passage which wasn't open at the time but is now at least to smaller boats.

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Originally Posted by Arragonis View Post
- Why do you think Greenland is not called Whiteland ?
According to the Saga of Eric the Red: "He named the land Greenland, saying that people would be eager to go there if it had a good name." Of course you have to be skeptical of legends but there isn't another generally accepted explanation.


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- Bangladesh has long had problems related to the environment. It is a marginal coastline state. Maybe we should help them develop so that they can protect themselves, but then again that will have an effect on the natural environment around them.

OK screw em, serves them right for being from Bangladash.
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:47 PM   #214 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 04_Sentra View Post

According to the Saga of Eric the Red: "He named the land Greenland, saying that people would be eager to go there if it had a good name." Of course you have to be skeptical of legends but there isn't another generally accepted explanation.
He must have been waay ahead of his time when it came to advertising and PR skills. Apparently the folks from Iceland didn't know him, as he might have done better for them in naming their turf.
 
Old 12-13-2010, 12:55 AM   #215 (permalink)
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Apparently the folks from Iceland didn't know him
Odd, since he grew up in Iceland.
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Old 12-13-2010, 02:00 PM   #216 (permalink)
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Odd, since he grew up in Iceland.
Maybe they didn't like promoters who engage in hype?
 
Old 12-14-2010, 06:45 AM   #217 (permalink)
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...1000 years of "current" historical weather records is nothing compared to the 4.56-billion years the earth has been around.

...and, just for giggles, look up "snowball earth"
And the worst of it is that the 1000 years of records is actually made up. No honest it is - real temp measurements don't go back that far. It is based on proxies (e.g. tree rings, sediments, ice bores) and then statistical processing of this data to try and pick out the significant ones.

Except the processing used is not a recognised statistical standard, and expert analysis of the processing used has found that it can produce hockey sticks (i.e. the temp record being flat until 20th century and then woosh...it goes up) with random data.

And of course the 'trick' was to 'hide the decline' which is where the proxies seperated from the recorded temp. So if they do that now how can we trust the 'reconstructions' ?

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Originally Posted by 04_Sentra View Post
OK screw em, serves them right for being from Bangladash.
Your choice of words, not mine. My thought would be that we try and help them via economic development rather than force them to accept useless windmills and solar panels...
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Old 12-14-2010, 06:49 PM   #218 (permalink)
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Couldn't resist.

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Old 12-15-2010, 12:59 PM   #219 (permalink)
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World Meteorological Organization and NOAA report: 2000-2009 is the hottest decade

World Meteorological Organization and NOAA both report: 2000-2009 is the hottest decade on record Climate Progress



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What makes these record temps especially impressive is that we’re at “the deepest solar minimum in nearly a century,” according to NASA. It’s just hard to stop the march of anthropogenic global warming, well, other than by reducing GHG emissions, that is.
http://climateprogress.org/2009/10/2...rfreakonomics/

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Have you heard that the world is now cooling instead of warming? You may have seen some news reports on the Internet or heard about it from a provocative new book.

Only one problem: It’s not true, according to an analysis of the numbers done by several independent statisticians for The Associated Press.
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Old 12-15-2010, 01:47 PM   #220 (permalink)
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Over in Europe, 2010 is looking to be the coldest year since 1996.

 
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