Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-12-2019, 09:08 AM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,502

Gaptooth (retired) - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 54.26 mpg (US)

Such Fit - '07 Honda Fit Sport
90 day: 41.27 mpg (US)

Connect - '15 Ford Transit Connect XL
90 day: 23.93 mpg (US)

K-sight - '00 Honda K-sight
90 day: 40.97 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,288
Thanked 1,428 Times in 907 Posts
See this thread:

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...ods-32386.html

My previous Honda had an oversized motor and really short gearing. I tried all sorts of aero mods and it didn't respond well to any of them, because most of the losses were in the drivetrain. Sounds like your truck may be the same way, though to a lesser extent. Aero mods will reduce load but if your gearing and engine are eating up fuel you won't get as much from other mods.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-12-2019, 09:35 AM   #12 (permalink)
Redneck Ecomodder
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 343

Dent-Mobile - '99 Buick Lesabre
90 day: 22.68 mpg (US)

Red Rocket - '92 Geo Metro Base
Thanks: 7
Thanked 53 Times in 44 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
See this thread:

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...ods-32386.html

My previous Honda had an oversized motor and really short gearing. I tried all sorts of aero mods and it didn't respond well to any of them, because most of the losses were in the drivetrain. Sounds like your truck may be the same way, though to a lesser extent. Aero mods will reduce load but if your gearing and engine are eating up fuel you won't get as much from other mods.
I'll look that over sometime. I don't think that's the case here though as pickups equipped as mine are should be able to see 17 stock if you drive semi reasonable. It is a small v8 and 3.55 isn't all that low of gearing, especially with an overdrive transmission. I think the two biggest factors are the extra 4 inches of ground clearance in the front between the tires and the lift kit, and the extra 20 or so pounds per tire that it's having to spin.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 05:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
Lurking Eco-wall-o-texter
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: MPLS, MN area
Posts: 126
Thanks: 0
Thanked 63 Times in 45 Posts
Hello Shaneajanderson,

A '94-'96 Extended Cab F150 was on my list of possibles when I was looking and got the Explorer I have now. Lots of them around, cheap parts, good crash safety. Unfortunately everything in the "inexpensive" price range was very rusty here, with lots of brake problems (rust) and fuel tank issues (rust again). Broncos were worse and all had automatics from those years. At least the F150's rust spots are easier to get to than on the Bronco.

You have an M5OD-R2 trans, not a ZF, unless you swapped it in or have crawled under and verified that it was swapped in. A ZF can be swapped in and give you a lower first gear, allowing you to run steeper axle gears and still get a loaded rig moving. Heavier transmission, though. IIRC you have identical gearing to my Explorer (or will after you swap tires), as I have the related M5OD-R1HD, 3.55 gears, and stock 235/75R15 tires. I'm at 15-17mpg with a sick 4.0 OHV V6, running mostly short trips in winter.

You say you have 4" more ground clearance over stock so that'd be a 3" lift kit. Any steering/handling issues? Lifting a TTB isn't easy to do right - getting the caster and camber right is a chore. Deleting the lift and going to stock height allows stock alignment specs, which is much easier to find a shop to do. Should see some benefits in steering, too, as the geometry isn't happy when modified from stock unless changes are made. Lowering is no easier than lifting in terms of keeping the angles right and the steering happy. NOTE: finding a shop that knows TTB for alignments apparently isn't easy, either. A leveling kit for the rear with air shocks to keep it from squatting when you load it up will keep it more level for aero work if you are so inclined.

When deleting the lift, you'll have the entire suspension apart. I mean, you can probably leave the driveshaft/brake lines/shocks connected but you'd have to support the TTB, the radius arms, etc. and work around them, so easier to pull them all. Perfect time to replace all manner of seals, bushings, do bearing checks/replacements, possibly regear, add manual hubs, etc. If you want to regear, you may be time and $$ ahead to go pick up a junkyard front and rear axle/suspension set and rebuild them/get them regeared while they are off the truck. Then you get to bolt in all refreshed parts after getting all the old rusty stuff off. Hmm, looks like as steep as 3.08 was available from the factory in at least the rear 8.8", so if you want to go steep, you may score a junkyard find and only have to buy gears for the TTB.

If you don't want to spend money on regearing, and need new tires anyway, you have a pickup that hauls things - look for LT235/85R16 or similar - generally all Load Range E truck tires. Taller than your 31" tires (nearly 32"), widely available inexpensively as they are stock on many work trucks/vans before 17"+ rims became the norm. You'll need to find 16" rims with the right bolt pattern, shouldn't be too much of a pain to do. They'll likely fit fine even after you delete the lift, given how big the wheelwells are on the truck. If you want stock height, there's also an LT215/85R16, also generally all Load Range E truck tires. Skinnier than stock and it's only a hair taller than a stock 235/75R15. They look very inexpensive, too.

Since you have a '94, it is unlikely to be OBD-II. I think some California models got it that early, but I don't recall. '96 was full OBD-II, if you want to swap over all the injector wiring, computer, etc. to allow simple OBD-II port plugin tools to work. Otherwise you will need something like an MPGuino to read MPG. I think '96 also went from batch-fire to sequential-fire, too. I think the change to OBD-II also brought along Ford's EEC-V computer. The earlier EEC-IV system has a whole lot of aftermarket tuner support, including "switch tunes" which allow you to have driver-selectable tunes from a dash-mounted switch. Like an ECO mode, a Power mode, a Tow mode, an E85 mode, etc. Quarter-Horse is a search term that gives lots of results, though most people are searching for max horsepower.

Other than that, everyone else is giving good aero advice, and are far more up to speed on ecomods than I am. I just read alot.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2019, 10:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
Redneck Ecomodder
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 343

Dent-Mobile - '99 Buick Lesabre
90 day: 22.68 mpg (US)

Red Rocket - '92 Geo Metro Base
Thanks: 7
Thanked 53 Times in 44 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajunfj40 View Post
Hello Shaneajanderson,

A '94-'96 Extended Cab F150 was on my list of possibles when I was looking and got the Explorer I have now. Lots of them around, cheap parts, good crash safety. Unfortunately everything in the "inexpensive" price range was very rusty here, with lots of brake problems (rust) and fuel tank issues (rust again). Broncos were worse and all had automatics from those years. At least the F150's rust spots are easier to get to than on the Bronco.

You have an M5OD-R2 trans, not a ZF, unless you swapped it in or have crawled under and verified that it was swapped in. A ZF can be swapped in and give you a lower first gear, allowing you to run steeper axle gears and still get a loaded rig moving. Heavier transmission, though. IIRC you have identical gearing to my Explorer (or will after you swap tires), as I have the related M5OD-R1HD, 3.55 gears, and stock 235/75R15 tires. I'm at 15-17mpg with a sick 4.0 OHV V6, running mostly short trips in winter.

You say you have 4" more ground clearance over stock so that'd be a 3" lift kit. Any steering/handling issues? Lifting a TTB isn't easy to do right - getting the caster and camber right is a chore. Deleting the lift and going to stock height allows stock alignment specs, which is much easier to find a shop to do. Should see some benefits in steering, too, as the geometry isn't happy when modified from stock unless changes are made. Lowering is no easier than lifting in terms of keeping the angles right and the steering happy. NOTE: finding a shop that knows TTB for alignments apparently isn't easy, either. A leveling kit for the rear with air shocks to keep it from squatting when you load it up will keep it more level for aero work if you are so inclined.

When deleting the lift, you'll have the entire suspension apart. I mean, you can probably leave the driveshaft/brake lines/shocks connected but you'd have to support the TTB, the radius arms, etc. and work around them, so easier to pull them all. Perfect time to replace all manner of seals, bushings, do bearing checks/replacements, possibly regear, add manual hubs, etc. If you want to regear, you may be time and $$ ahead to go pick up a junkyard front and rear axle/suspension set and rebuild them/get them regeared while they are off the truck. Then you get to bolt in all refreshed parts after getting all the old rusty stuff off. Hmm, looks like as steep as 3.08 was available from the factory in at least the rear 8.8", so if you want to go steep, you may score a junkyard find and only have to buy gears for the TTB.

If you don't want to spend money on regearing, and need new tires anyway, you have a pickup that hauls things - look for LT235/85R16 or similar - generally all Load Range E truck tires. Taller than your 31" tires (nearly 32"), widely available inexpensively as they are stock on many work trucks/vans before 17"+ rims became the norm. You'll need to find 16" rims with the right bolt pattern, shouldn't be too much of a pain to do. They'll likely fit fine even after you delete the lift, given how big the wheelwells are on the truck. If you want stock height, there's also an LT215/85R16, also generally all Load Range E truck tires. Skinnier than stock and it's only a hair taller than a stock 235/75R15. They look very inexpensive, too.

Since you have a '94, it is unlikely to be OBD-II. I think some California models got it that early, but I don't recall. '96 was full OBD-II, if you want to swap over all the injector wiring, computer, etc. to allow simple OBD-II port plugin tools to work. Otherwise you will need something like an MPGuino to read MPG. I think '96 also went from batch-fire to sequential-fire, too. I think the change to OBD-II also brought along Ford's EEC-V computer. The earlier EEC-IV system has a whole lot of aftermarket tuner support, including "switch tunes" which allow you to have driver-selectable tunes from a dash-mounted switch. Like an ECO mode, a Power mode, a Tow mode, an E85 mode, etc. Quarter-Horse is a search term that gives lots of results, though most people are searching for max horsepower.

Other than that, everyone else is giving good aero advice, and are far more up to speed on ecomods than I am. I just read alot.
Mine is pretty clean despite coming from Minnesota, got washed weekly in the winter until 2016 when I bought it and brought it the right side of the red River.

As far as taller gearing, that's what I want to avoid. I pull a 5k camper with this pickup and it's near the safe limit of it's abilities to do that, bringing my gearing down a little (as well as reducing rotating mass) would help make it a little better.

The lift kit is one that's a 2" block under the coil springs, and they added a longer adjustment bolt for camber, which can stay when reverting to stock height. Once I get the lower mount bolt loose it's pretty easy to remove the block.

Mine is a "heavy half" which is why it has the 3.55 and zf transmission, not a swap. It wasn't a common option but was available.

16" rims: the only ones I've found that use the same pattern and are made for the loads I haul are off the 94-01 Dodge 1500's, which have a much smaller hub bore and would require boring out, not exactly in my budget.

I already have manual lockouts, but I plan on replacing the rubber brake hose ends because they rubbed some on the big tires, and repacking the bearings is definitely on the to do list, as well as brakes if needed, though as I recall they are pretty good
__________________

Last edited by Shaneajanderson; 03-12-2019 at 10:43 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2019, 09:38 AM   #15 (permalink)
Lurking Eco-wall-o-texter
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: MPLS, MN area
Posts: 126
Thanks: 0
Thanked 63 Times in 45 Posts
Hello again Shaneajanderson,

Heavy Half? Neat! Hadn't run across that combo before, glad to learn something new and glad to hear you found a less-rust one!

Is it the close-ratio or wide-ratio ZF? The wide-ratio IIRC has the ~5.something first gear. You could gear for the camper in 4th, empty driving in 5th perhaps. First gear will still be able to get you rolling. I've read of people putting the wide-ratio gears in the correct housing to match whatever engine they have, so that's a potential option if you want to try steep gearing. Heavy transmission though, so it'd be a fair bit of work. (My M5OD-R1HD with transfercase was a hassle, even with a transmission jack...)

Since you're already in "heavy half" territory with the beefier transmission, do you have a 9" rear end or an 8.8"? If you poke around on the 'net you can find articles on how to swap on 8-lug F250 or similar spindles/hubs/rotors to your TTB front end. For the rear you'll probably need to swap in a 9" from an F250 or similar, unless you want custom axle shafts or if there was a "light 3/4" that came with an 8-lug 8.8. Then you could probably nab just the shafts. That would allow stock 16" F250 rims to be used, and give you bigger front end bearings, brakes, etc.

Otherwise, sounds like pulling out the lift blocks and putting stock size LT235/75R15 tires on will be your least-cost move and you've a good handle on what you want to do.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2019, 09:49 AM   #16 (permalink)
Redneck Ecomodder
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 343

Dent-Mobile - '99 Buick Lesabre
90 day: 22.68 mpg (US)

Red Rocket - '92 Geo Metro Base
Thanks: 7
Thanked 53 Times in 44 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajunfj40 View Post
Hello again Shaneajanderson,

Heavy Half? Neat! Hadn't run across that combo before, glad to learn something new and glad to hear you found a less-rust one!

Is it the close-ratio or wide-ratio ZF? The wide-ratio IIRC has the ~5.something first gear. You could gear for the camper in 4th, empty driving in 5th perhaps. First gear will still be able to get you rolling. I've read of people putting the wide-ratio gears in the correct housing to match whatever engine they have, so that's a potential option if you want to try steep gearing. Heavy transmission though, so it'd be a fair bit of work. (My M5OD-R1HD with transfercase was a hassle, even with a transmission jack...)

Since you're already in "heavy half" territory with the beefier transmission, do you have a 9" rear end or an 8.8"? If you poke around on the 'net you can find articles on how to swap on 8-lug F250 or similar spindles/hubs/rotors to your TTB front end. For the rear you'll probably need to swap in a 9" from an F250 or similar, unless you want custom axle shafts or if there was a "light 3/4" that came with an 8-lug 8.8. Then you could probably nab just the shafts. That would allow stock 16" F250 rims to be used, and give you bigger front end bearings, brakes, etc.

Otherwise, sounds like pulling out the lift blocks and putting stock size LT235/75R15 tires on will be your least-cost move and you've a good handle on what you want to do.
Not sure on the wide ratio or narrow ratio. What I do know is that first is low enough that empty I use it only too about 5 MPH, and with the camper it's low enough to get it moving uphill without burning the clutch.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2019, 10:10 AM   #17 (permalink)
Redneck Ecomodder
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 343

Dent-Mobile - '99 Buick Lesabre
90 day: 22.68 mpg (US)

Red Rocket - '92 Geo Metro Base
Thanks: 7
Thanked 53 Times in 44 Posts
I forgot to address the axle. Honestly I'm not sure, haven't checked that. I didn't realize that the 3/4+ used the 9", I thought they all used the 8.8 so I never really looked any further. I still have the dealer's window sticker, I'll see if it says anything on there.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2019, 10:13 AM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 284

Jeep - '97 Jeep Cherokee Sport
90 day: 19.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 76
Thanked 47 Times in 45 Posts
That's good that you'll still have 4x4 in the winter.

How much money are you willing to spend on this rig? You could get some improvements by getting alloy axleshafts and rebuilding the engine for economy. Manual front locking hubs would be good too.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2019, 12:35 PM   #19 (permalink)
Redneck Ecomodder
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 343

Dent-Mobile - '99 Buick Lesabre
90 day: 22.68 mpg (US)

Red Rocket - '92 Geo Metro Base
Thanks: 7
Thanked 53 Times in 44 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor95 View Post
That's good that you'll still have 4x4 in the winter.


How much money are you willing to spend on this rig? You could get some improvements by getting alloy axleshafts and rebuilding the engine for economy. Manual front locking hubs would be good too.
Edit to add: I already have manual front hubs, wouldn't have it any other way, economy minded or no. There's something to be said for simplicity and the inherent reliability that comes with it.

I'm not looking to spend a fortune, it doesn't get all that many miles on it. What I've described so far besides the tires which need replacing anyway I can do with free/cheap material.

I have a lot of lumber and plywood already, and if I decide to do the shell out of aluminum I work for a company that uses about 40,000 lbs of aluminum sheet a month, with lots of scrap I could use, as well as a lot of extruded aluminum bars.

This is also how I'll source my roll up cover, we make those as well and get returns that are defective occasionally, and the warranty guy is going to hold the next one for me that has cosmetic trouble but is still functional.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2019, 01:02 PM   #20 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 284

Jeep - '97 Jeep Cherokee Sport
90 day: 19.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 76
Thanked 47 Times in 45 Posts
Oh ok. I'm not sure if this was mentioned but you could switch all of your oils to synthetic and get a small gain.

With all that material you could build a nice underbelly skid plate.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com