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Old 12-24-2021, 03:39 PM   #121 (permalink)
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10x feet of elevation gain? Aren't the Sea of Cortez and The Pacific Ocean at the same level?

Siphons work just as well upside down. A salt-water Artesian well.

edit:
Quote:
Boring Tunneling Cost Predicted to Be $4-5 Million Per Mile
https://www.nextbigfuture.com › 2021 › 08 › boring-tunneling-cost-predicted-to-be-4-5-million-per-mile.html
He is projecting Boring Company to reach about 50-70 Meters per day in 2021 and just under $6 million per mile. This would be about a mile of tunneling per month. Will projects Boring Company improving quite a bit of next 3 years and then leveling off in improvement.

Why The Boring Company's $10 million dollars per mile ...
https://www.teslarati.com › elon-musk-the-boring-company-10-million-dollars-per-mile-price-tag-game-changer
Even if the cost of boring tunnels for public transportation projects rises somewhat above the $10 million per mile price demonstrated with the LA/Hawthorne tunnel, it will be still be well under...
$7.5 million times 100 miles is less than a billion.

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Old 12-25-2021, 12:57 AM   #122 (permalink)
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That boring seems like a bargain.

$1,136 per foot at $6M/mile.
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Old 12-25-2021, 10:39 AM   #123 (permalink)
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Is that $6 mill a cost or a billing amount? Big difference since we know Elon won't do it for cost + 3% unless he just smoked something before signing the contract
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Old 12-25-2021, 12:01 PM   #124 (permalink)
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Going through Mexico using former/transient bodies of water along the canal route is estimated to cost about $3b by Metcalf & Edy

But depending on the width of the canal the anscillary property damage, human tole, loss of property and the costs of adding new bridges could full well cost $50b or more

The original proposal wanted it to be wide enough for ocean going vessels and use the it flows downhill path of least resistance method which would flood a very large area recreating the extents of a large ancient sea, I doubt the amount of land loss would ever be tolerated as you would loose portions of Mexicali and the salty dust storm areas that tourists like to drive but those same areas flood randomly so maybe better to remain flooded?

The salinity issue isn’t really important in the grand scheme but could become a “resource” if we want to mine for salt / lithium similar to the Dead Sea.

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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
That boring seems like a bargain.

$1,136 per foot at $6M/mile.
Remember Musk doesn’t have a corner on boring the government core of engineering can do it also

So It is a bargain but sadly going through the us side means you are drilling under rich attorneys properties and even though they have no legal right to “mineral rights” if they know the Chunnel is going under their property they will sue ensuring the $50b comes to fruition

Next issue is that a small car sized tunnel likely can’t supply enough water to overcome evaporative and “hydraulic conductivity “ and the cost to bore larger raises the costs significantly, you also have additional costs to reinforce/line the tunnel to be filled with water (dry tunnel is cheaper)


An alternative “cheaper “ proposal would be to connect laguna salada to the Salton as it floods randomly then dries up shortly after, supposedly this would stabilize the current Salton levels , would only run about $3m but unknown what side effects that would have.


Another not popular option is to stop irritation and let it go back to being a dry area with Yellowstone like steam vents in places.

Given the rate wells are drying up that might be what happens regardless of our actions.

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Old 12-25-2021, 12:29 PM   #125 (permalink)
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From what I recall, the western cali 86(?) Side is halfway under water on those occasional summer monsoons and there's a huge section to the south that would ditto by deepening more than 3ft. There is a ledge showing a previous lake level up about 10 ft high.

Don't know about the lawyers, but there be a s***pot load of farmers that won't allow right of way through Calexico or El Centro even though there is an existing irrigation drainage ditch. Everything else is Federal through the desert but has endangered.
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Old 12-25-2021, 12:54 PM   #126 (permalink)
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From what I recall, the western cali 86(?) Side is halfway under water on those occasional summer monsoons and there's a huge section to the south that would ditto by deepening more than 3ft. There is a ledge showing a previous lake level up about 10 ft high.

Don't know about the lawyers, but there be a s***pot load of farmers that won't allow right of way through Calexico or El Centro even though there is an existing irrigation drainage ditch. Everything else is Federal through the desert but has endangered.
I think the key would be a hybrid approach if the “channel “ were big enough for ocean going vessels then you need a lock and dam to keep things from flooding over

If you don’t want that you size the channel just large enough to have enough flow maintain a specific water level and likely much less interference with land owners

The boring concept would theoretically affect no one negatively but you would still get lots of lawsuits unless the federal government steps in and throws weight around removing rights by streamlining everyone’s lawsuit into a funnel.
It’s not like the fed hasn’t imposed its authority before, just hasn’t done it recently
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Old 12-25-2021, 08:27 PM   #127 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703
Remember Musk doesn’t have a corner on boring the government core of engineering can do it also
[snip]
Next issue is that a small car sized tunnel likely can’t supply enough water to overcome evaporative and “hydraulic conductivity “ and the cost to bore larger raises the costs significantly, you also have additional costs to reinforce/line the tunnel to be filled with water (dry tunnel is cheaper)
Too bad TBC can't access nuclear propulsion.
Quote:
A real-world, mobile subterrene must work thermally, using very high temperature and immense pressure to melt and push through rock. The front of the machine is equipped with a stationary drill tip which is kept at 1,300–1,700 °F (700–930 °C). The molten rock is pushed around the edges as the vehicle is forced forward, and cools to a glass-like lining of the tunnel. Massive amounts of energy are required to heat the drill head, supplied via nuclear power or electricity. Patents issued in the 1970s[1] indicate that U.S. scientists had planned to use nuclear power to liquefy lithium metal and circulate it to the front of the machine (drill). An onboard nuclear reactor can permit a truly independent subterrene, but cooling the reactor is a difficult problem.[2] The Soviet Union is purported to have built such a "battle mole", which operated until its onboard reactor failed.[3]

Online information[clarification needed] presents research that was funded by the United States Government for the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratories University of California, Los Alamos, New Mexico for a project Camelot under the heading Systems and Cost Analysis for a Nuclear Subterrene Tunneling Machine. A patent was subsequently issued under number 3,693,731 on September 26, 1972.[4]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subterrene

They produce a dense vitrified tunnel wall.
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Old 12-26-2021, 10:04 AM   #128 (permalink)
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Unless you increase the density by some huge factor in the walls, where does the material from the hole go?

The articles doesn't address where the tails went. Even more interesting is how do you keep it cool so it doesn't melt?
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Old 12-26-2021, 02:34 PM   #129 (permalink)
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I'm not the one with those answers. The whole field has gone dark since 1972.

Allegedly the Russians had one break down in mid-voyage. You can't just pull over or glide to a landing.
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Old 12-26-2021, 02:58 PM   #130 (permalink)
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I would imagine if it breaks, everything turns to rock or melts and definitely wouldn't move anymore

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