The Economics of a Prius 2?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by pete c

Every time I read about one of you euros discussing the countless engine choices you have, I want to throttle you!!!! More accurately, I want to jump in my horrifically overpowered gasser and drive to DC and throttle everyone at EPA and NHT...NTS....uhhhh, you know, the scoundrels there in charge of making sure we only drive "safe" cars.

You're blaming the wrong people (mostly, anyway). It's perfectly possible to get decent cars approved under US regulations. Lotus does it, as does Porsche. Mazda has the Miata, BMW & Merecdes their 2-seaters, and so on. No, the people most at fault are the US auto industry and their advertising/propaganda firms, who spend large amounts of money brainwashing most Americans into believing that they actually want those oversized, overstuffed, handle-like-a-waterbed "safe" cars.

[niky]

You can lead a horse to horsepower, but you can't make him drink it. Those same propaganda machines have been trying for decades to convince people "American" cars are as good as the "Japanese", but success (at least in the sedan market) has been very limited). Propaganda only works if people already want to believe what they're being told. Which is why conspiracy theory is so popular.

Even overseas... as soon as a population becomes more prosperous, they want bigger and bigger cars. Just look at China. People already living frugally by biking or motorcycling are caught up in the rush to buy a car. India. They release the world's cheapest car, and it's economical too... and the market response is a big yawn.

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by 320touring

Have a look at the Efficient Dynamics bmw's available in Europe.. some are getting north of 60mpg (imp)...

Seeing how diesel costs 20% more than gasoline around here, thats pretty irrelevant in the US market. I'm a few months away from getting a 2004+ prius, preferably one with a dead battery pack (if I can find one) to rebuild with A123 cells and my own battery controller. I'm looking for about 5 mile plug in range. That should cover the majority of low speed driving (getting to the freeway and back). I've seen them around $7000, battery condition unknown. I bet could knock it down to $5000 with a known bad battery. Maybe if there's another unintended acceleration scare or other mass hysteria stupidism, it'll work in my favor. When it comes to used cars, its always a buyers market.

[Arragonis]

Diesel is also more expensive here too - ~10% by extra taxation. Annual taxation is also higher. Some people actually prefer how a TD drives - mega torque at low-mid revs - compared to a petrol. That tapped Mrs A's 2011 Prius does "move" in "PWR" mode but it takes more "shove" on the go pedal at speed to keep up with traffic - which is where it loses out compared to Diesels.

[320touring]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

Diesel is also more expensive here too - ~10% by extra taxation. Annual taxation is also higher. Some people actually prefer how a TD drives - mega torque at low-mid revs - compared to a petrol. That tapped Mrs A's 2011 Prius does "move" in "PWR" mode but it takes more "shove" on the go pedal at speed to keep up with traffic - which is where it loses out compared to Diesels.

As a mile muncher that you're prepared to run until depreciation is not an issue then an early (NON DPF) Turbo diesel is the plan over here..

The higher MPG and similar servicing/maintainence costs will beat a petrol in the long run.

Newer TDi's equipped with DPFs are desperatley troublesome as far as I can see- most forums i frequent are full of "dead turbo/dpf" woes..

Faced with the need for a new mile muncher with decent resale, I'd go Prius..

As an aside- could you LPG the Prius?

[tjts1]

Yes


But I would do this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu5IZC1Jzog

[pete c]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

You're blaming the wrong people (mostly, anyway). It's perfectly possible to get decent cars approved under US regulations. Lotus does it, as does Porsche. Mazda has the Miata, BMW & Merecdes their 2-seaters, and so on. No, the people most at fault are the US auto industry and their advertising/propaganda firms, who spend large amounts of money brainwashing most Americans into believing that they actually want those oversized, overstuffed, handle-like-a-waterbed "safe" cars.

I believe there is blame enough to go around. Part is the automakers themselves, but, I believe the majority of the blame still falls on the feds with their excess regulation, just as they do in every other area of our lives to muck things up.

[user removed]

You could ride either one of these.
1971 or 2011.

regards
Mech

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by pete c

I believe there is blame enough to go around. Part is the automakers themselves, but, I believe the majority of the blame still falls on the feds with their excess regulation, just as they do in every other area of our lives to muck things up.

There is an assumption in the second part of this that little or no regulation exists in the rest of the world - not so. Emissions regs, safety regs and so on exist all over the world - some are less strict than the US and some more.

With the exception of some vehicles (e.g. Tata Nano) most car makers try and make their vehicles suitable for all markets otherwise they end up having to spend money on modifications - e.g. as FIAT did to get the 500 into the US which was probably not considered when they designed it, unlike the BINI which was always destined for the US, India, EMEA and Far East - i.e. the world.

Originally Posted by 320touring

...As an aside- could you LPG the Prius?

As it uses less fuel the payback period will be much longer though, maybe you could get Excel out ? I think you also qualify for "alternative fuel vehicle" road fund tax which is £20 ?

[320touring]

Originally Posted by tjts1

Yes


But I would do this.

I'd prefer LPG tbh- Lot more LPG than charging stations available in the highlands..

also, due to staying in flats, I have no access to charging whilst at home (no provision in carpark and no direct line to run a cable)