Electric Assist Project: E-charger (2000 Subaru Outback) - Page 5 - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum

dcb · 08-04-2010, 09:48 AM

Brucey, FYI,
BAS Hybrid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

refers to a "high tension belt", perhaps not your standard belt.

indicates there is no electric only mode,

and they changed the final drive ratio and added auto-stop so you can't really tell what contributions the motor and batteries made to the mpg changes.

If I were adding a lot of weight to support an electric motor, I wouldn't want to then handicap the electric motor by making it constantly spin the gas motor. It can't even move the car by itself in the BAS (read: easy to implement, but crap) system.

I have to think hooking it up to a wheel, even if geared for some target max mph, would allow a much greater energy contribution from the batteries with the right management strategy. You have to carry all those batteries up a lot of hills in wv.

brucey · 08-04-2010, 05:54 PM

Why is the BAS system crap? It's cheap, adapted to any car, requires no major modifications, and shows a 27% increase on the EPA cycle. Yes it's not as efficient as Toyota's synergy system, but that was built from the ground up with 1 goal in mind. The BAS is more of an adaptation that still shows a worthwhile increase. With a secondary/bigger battery charged with the grid, I think there would be a major increase in mileage. Which is basically what I'm doing here.

Also, the system apparently uses a small fry 36Volt electric motor, not much bigger than a regular alternator. The motor I got for mine is big enough for a motorcycle, so I think it should be able to pull it's own weight on the road.

But yes Plan B is still attaching it to the rear differential.

Daox · 08-04-2010, 06:37 PM

I think BAS would work (better) if you downsized your engine. Thats the main benefit of hybridization. Without EV mode or regenerative braking, whats the benefit other than faster acceleration? The engine is already oversize in every car out there for highway cruising.

dcb · 08-04-2010, 06:40 PM

I don't think it is especially cheap, compared to the minimal additional cost of sprockets and chains.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like not being able to move the vehicle on electric only is a large penalty. It would let you keep your engine off longer, where you don't have to pay the "keep the engine rotating" tax.

But fair enough, plan B is a short trip from some semblance of plan A.

Clev · 08-04-2010, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox

I think BAS would work (better) if you downsized your engine. Thats the main benefit of hybridization. Without EV mode or regenerative braking, whats the benefit other than faster acceleration? The engine is already oversize in every car out there for highway cruising.

It's easier to EOC when restarting is instant. Earlier upshifting. Accelerating and hill climbing can be done in a higher gear. Starting off from zero RPM is possible. Drive-throughs are no longer verboten, and crawling through traffic no longer requires burning up the clutch. The presence of 36V or more means DC/DC instead of alternator, and perhaps another small motor to drive the compressor/PS pump without loading the engine (or indeed even needing to run the engine to get A/C.)

I agree that regen is a good idea, though.

RobertSmalls · 08-04-2010, 09:37 PM

Clev, when a BAS is attached to the engine, you lose most of those benefits. All that you do gain is better charging system efficiency, easier engine stops and starts for more frequent EOC/P&G, and a small amount of brakeforce recovery.

I drive a mild hybrid, and sometimes I really wish I could move under electric power without rotating the engine.

Clev · 08-05-2010, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls

Clev, when a BAS is attached to the engine, you lose most of those benefits. All that you do gain is better charging system efficiency, easier engine stops and starts for more frequent EOC/P&G, and a small amount of brakeforce recovery.

I drive a mild hybrid, and sometimes I really wish I could move under electric power without rotating the engine.

I was referring to something a little bigger than just a BAS. (An Etek at 72V, for instance, which would produce about 19 hp at 200 amps--plenty enough to do all of those things with the transmission in first gear.)

brucey · 08-05-2010, 03:26 AM

BWA DA NA DAAAA

My mock up was pretty accurate. I already relocated the power steering lines to help, but it looks like I am for sure going to have to relocate the ABS Pump. The Reservoir still looks like it might just clear where it's at, depending on how big my pulley gets.

I also planned to mount the controller next to the motor, covering up the hole in the fender in the process. Maybe I should clean my engine bay before doing all this other stuff though...

Dr. Jerryrigger · 08-05-2010, 10:19 AM

I'm a little worried about the mounting. Those brackets look a little flimsy for the size of the electric motor. But I can't think of a better option. That thing wouldn't fit anywhere on top of the block (with the hood on that is).
The ABS shouldn't be to hard to move, with a hole cut for it to go in, or just a big dent from 37min of beating it with a ball peen hammer, it could be forced over the 2 to 4 in. it look like it needs.

Clean out your engine bay? But you already ripped out that stupid intake, I don't see anything else that needs cleaning up...

brucey · 08-05-2010, 11:47 AM

Yup! I was thinking the same thing. I think I'm going to have the front plate in addition to another plate similar to this:

And have the 2 bolted together for some nice triangulation.

It should end up carrying most of the weight. I might switch over to angle iron to save some weight and still be able to change the plugs with the bracket on. I might not, and just change the plugs now and cuss at myself about it again in 50K miles.