Elio Motors, The Next Big Thing?!!...

[Fat Charlie]

Isn't "marketing fraud" redundant?

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by JSH

It would be easy if Elio took the money and ran but he didn't do that. Instead he took the money and pissed it away trying to keep his under capitalized company afloat.

Pretty much. Pissed it away trying to develop everything but the tires in house so they can put the proprietary lock down on every nut and bolt.

Elio isn't going to be as big as they thought. The only chance they had to really take off was to sub almost everything out, get it built fast and get them out for sale while gas prices were still nearly $3.80 per gallon for most of the country.
But that ship has sailed.

Gas prices will be back around $4 a gallon again, but not before elio is long gone.

[seifrob]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

How about if people just charged Paul Elio with "Tucker-ism" marketing fraud?

Indivudual backers will imho hardly take the trouble with lawsuit, the deposit was so low they will rather write it off (and keep the t-shirt).
Government supported funds that gave Elio millions in grants? Maybe. But, after first assessment they will realize there is not much to confiscate should they eventually win the case. Why bother with paying for lawyers than?

In the end, Elio in fact did a good job and his true bussiness is well executed.

[redpoint5]

Isn't Elio the company that emerged out of a government prize for building a efficient vehicle? I thought the whole goal was to make money by building something cheap so that it doesn't cut into the prize money profits?

Elio cars will never be a thing. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think these "inventors" are so much interested in developing compelling technology so much as making a profit.

EDIT: I was thinking of Edison2. For some reason I thought they were the same vehicle, but the Edison2 has 4 wheels.

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Isn't Elio the company that emerged out of a government prize for building a efficient vehicle? I thought the whole goal was to make money by building something cheap so that it doesn't cut into the prize money profits?

Elio cars will never be a thing. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think these "inventors" are so much interested in developing compelling technology so much as making a profit.

EDIT: I was thinking of Edison2. For some reason I thought they were the same vehicle, but the Edison2 has 4 wheels.

Yes, Elio is a different horse in this on-going "Dog & Pony" marketing scheme. Edison2 shut themselves down.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

Yes, Elio is a different horse in this on-going "Dog & Pony" marketing scheme. Edison2 shut themselves down.

It seemed pretty evident to me that Edison2 was a money grab. They also developed in wheel suspension that appeared to be a money grab; just trying to market the patent and sell it to some sucker willing to buy it.

Maybe there is a market for Elio in Florida. If I wanted a small crappy car, I'd buy a Smart.

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Isn't Elio the company that emerged out of a government prize for building a efficient vehicle? I thought the whole goal was to make money by building something cheap so that it doesn't cut into the prize money profits?

Elio cars will never be a thing. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think these "inventors" are so much interested in developing compelling technology so much as making a profit.

EDIT: I was thinking of Edison2. For some reason I thought they were the same vehicle, but the Edison2 has 4 wheels.

Right - Edison2 was a totally different animal. 250cc turbo single cylinder rear wheel drive, seats 4 people, super low aero drag - VERY different designs.

Edison could not have been a money grab - they built 10 prototypes before the X-Prize, and they brought 4 cars. They spent FAR more money than the prize money. They were always a genuine effort to build a 100+ MPG car.

They won the "main" prize of $5 Million. They probably spend $15 Million, or more. They also built an electric version after the X-Prize, and they continued to develop the design, took it to the GM wind tunnel, and started building the production intent prototype. They continued for about 4 years after the X-Prize.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Edison ... won the "main" prize of $5 Million. They probably spend $15 Million, or more. They also built an electric version after the X-Prize, and they continued to develop the design, took it to the GM wind tunnel, and started building the production intent prototype. They continued for about 4 years after the X-Prize.

The oil price fell like a rock between the start and actual competition, and the US [customers, and hence investors] were no longer interested ....

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Right - Edison2 was a totally different animal. 250cc turbo single cylinder rear wheel drive, seats 4 people, super low aero drag - VERY different designs.

Edison could not have been a money grab - they built 10 prototypes before the X-Prize, and they brought 4 cars. They spent FAR more money than the prize money. They were always a genuine effort to build a 100+ MPG car.

They won the "main" prize of $5 Million. They probably spend $15 Million, or more. They also built an electric version after the X-Prize, and they continued to develop the design, took it to the GM wind tunnel, and started building the production intent prototype. They continued for about 4 years after the X-Prize.

I formed my opinion based on the owner himself saying "this was a one-time shot at making money". Skip to 5:17 to hear him say this.

Perhaps he had been developing the car independently of the X-prize, but saw an opportunity to make easy money with a project he was already working on.

The rules weren't sufficient to accomplish the results they were looking for, which was to promote advanced technologies. Instead the Edison leveraged no new technology, but merely applied what we already know about traveling efficiently; reduce weight and reduce aerodynamic drag.

There is nothing proprietary about their drivetrain, as it uses an existing parts.

The only thing proprietary is the shape of the vehicle, which is unsuitable for actual consumer use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06wY7jGu1O0&t=5m17s

I found the video interesting, but the "technology" boring. It's a way to win a game, not solve an actual problem.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Elio cars will never be a thing. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think these "inventors" are so much interested in developing compelling technology so much as making a profit.

Maybe I'm giving Elio to much credit because he went to the same engineering school I did but I see it as naivety. People that don't work in the auto industry simply do not understand the massive amount of tooling required to manufacture an automobile. We are talking $750 million to $2 billion to tool up.

If you look at Paul Elio's resume you can see he was way out of his depth trying to build a mass production car. He graduated from GMI with his engineering degree, worked at Johnson Controls for 2 years and then started Elio.