Engine braking and stop lights

[texanidiot25]

Once again, my original comment was not about speeding, it was about intentionally slowing down your car far below the limit. Look up the statistics on road rage. Enjoy.

[dcb]

yah, but only an a$$hat would worry about the number of people paying attention to the road and going under the limit, vs the number of people talking on cellphones and texting or drinking and going over the limit. Or worry about whom is going to go psychotic if they are delayed a single minute. This is such a stupid argument. You got the facts/perspective and priorities entirely wrong here.

[texanidiot25]

So you're saying encouraging road rage is safe?

You have to be a real asshat to be apart of the problem in the name of "safety". Being a jackass and slowing your car far below the speed limit, in the intent of effecting the other driver's emotions is only one of the many problems on the road. And then, justifying it as I'm creating a safer situation... please. Road rage is no definition of safety.

[dcb]

I'm done, you don't make no sense and threaten road rage when you don't get your way.

[Arragonis]

So PW, did you work out what to use, if anything ?

(Edit - I'm as guilty as anyone...)

[JacobAziza]

Originally Posted by texanidiot25

I'll go out and say "herd speeding", is safer than "herd trying to avoid one slow cow in a skinny stockade". Laws are one thing, but logic and real life tend to win-out. You shouldn't have to, by all means, speed your car up to an unreasonable speed to appease another driver, but vica-versa if you're blocking them on a road where passing is not an option. The most you can do is "be the better man", and do what's best to alleviate the problem. It does mean compromising.

Being a dick and slowing down more maybe fun, but certainly isn't safe, as par some opinions here..

Speeding is the single largest factor in injury and fatality accidents. The idea that driving the same speed as traffic around you is safer is a myth.

P.S. Texan; the number of deaths and injuries due to "road rage"? Seriously? You think that number is higher than the number of deaths and injuries due to speeding, tailgating, and aggressive driving?

Road rage: about 300 deliberately caused deaths and injuries in the US, total, ever (according to wikipedia)

Accidents due to speeding and aggressive driving: about 95% of the 2.5 million deaths and injuries due to car accidents in the US in just one year.

[texanidiot25]

I'm done, you don't make no sense and threaten road rage when you don't get your way.

HAHA! I've encouraged road rage as a solution?

Reading comprehension would do a lot of good for the lot of you. My main point this entire time is traffic flowing along is safer than one jackass slowing down way below the limit to try and teach the other jackass a "lesson". I have yet to encourage in my words actual speeding (above the limit) as safer, my main point is that flowing traffic is. I'm using the terms you guys use for anyone who is going faster than yourselves (who are, admittedly going below the limit). Those terms have usually been "herd speeding" etc etc.

Road rage statistics are hard to calculate due to the circumstances involved as admitted by many of the sources I've seen (Including HPD). Mainly because road rage involves MANY dangerous driving habits and thusly tends to water down road rage as a cause.

Please, logically explain to me how this:

If they don't back off, or in worse cases, they get closer, I just slow down more.

The margin of safety increases with each MPH I decrease...

Is safer than a smooth flow of traffic..

I mean, really, slowing your car down to BLOCK TRAFFIC and START ROADRAGE is as safe as EVERYBODY MOVING AT THE SAME SPEED? Damn, I'll hit that 2 lane black top doing 10mph! And when someone objects, I'll go slower!

Also, cite your source on the 95% number. As the NHTSA claims much lower at 30%. NHTSA is a much sounder source than the air.



Good evening to all. If you believe being a self righteous jackass in an attempt to teach someone a lesson is a good idea, I have no business even arguing. When you attempt to control the road, you become a problem. You are just as bad as that woman on the cell phone while yelling at her kids in an SUV who's tail gating you to try and control your driving.

[JacobAziza]

Originally Posted by texanidiot25

My main point this entire time is traffic flowing along is safer than one jackass slowing down way below the limit to try and teach the other jackass a "lesson".

Only, no one here ever said the purpose of slowing down was to teach the tailgater a lesson. The purpose of slowing down is 1) because at lower speeds a crash does less damage and 2) it encourages them to pass (and allows them to do it more safely).
If someone were advocating "brake checking" tailgaters, you would have a valid point, but no one said that.

Also, cite your source on the 95% number. As the NHTSA claims much lower at 30%. NHTSA is a much sounder source than the air.

30% is just for speeding. I said "speeding AND aggressive driving" You know, like tailgating, or passing when it isn't safe. 5% of accidents are caused by equipment failures. Which leaves 95% to be caused by driver error. That 95% is all preventable, and, after not drinking and driving, going slower is the most effective way to prevent them.

The U.S. Department of transportation's Federal Highway Administration review research on traffic speed in 1998.[19] The summary states:

* That the evidence shows that the risk of having a crash is increased both for vehicles traveling slower than the average speed, and for those traveling above the average speed.
* That the risk of being injured increases exponentially with speeds much faster than the median speed.
* That the severity of a crash depends on the vehicle speed change at impact.
* That there is limited evidence that suggests that lower speed limits result in lower speeds on a system wide basis.
* That most crashes related to speed involve speed too fast for the conditions.
* That more research is needed to determine the effectiveness of traffic calming.

"risk of involvement in a casualty crash, relative to the risk for a car traveling at 60 km/h, increased at an exponential rate for free traveling speeds above 60 km/h [37mph]"

“First, the probability of a crash is approximately proportional to the square of the travel speed. Second, in a crash, injury risk is approximately proportional to the impact forces on a person, which in turn are proportional to the square of the impact speed. These two effects can be summarized in a general rule of thumb: When travel speed increases by 1%, the injury crash rate increases by about 2%, the serious injury crash rate increases by about 3%, and the fatal crash rate increases by about 4%"

http://www.lawcore.com/car-accident/statistics.html

http://casr.adelaide.edu.au/speed/exec.html

http://www.tsc.berkeley.edu/newslett...008/speed.html

Note that while they do say the oft repeated claim that driving slower than the flow of traffic does contribute to accidents, only speed is a significant factor in injuries and fatalities. Your risk of a MINOR crash goes up while your risk of the kind of crash that really matters goes way down. The net effect is still that it is ALWAYS safer to go slower. Even in the road rage instance where a tailgater deliberately rams his car into you, at 30mph you are better off than the case where the crash is an accident, but occurs at 70mph.

You keep coming back to "teaching someone a lesson", but its not about changing other peoples behavior, its about physics. No matter what other drivers do, it won't change the fact that twice the speed equals 4 times the braking distance and 4 times the impact force. I really don't care what the other guys emotional state is when our cars collide, I care about surviving.

[user removed]

On I64 East here where I live, you can watch the transformation as the traffic density approaches the saturation point, where everyone has to slow down, sometimes 10-20 MPH below the posted limit.

The number of high speed, lane changing, passing on the right, idiots is reduced by the sheer stupidity of the effort to get there a few seconds before every one else.

All of these activities are illegal, in case that needs to be pointed out.

I do drive the limit or just slightly below, but if some jackass is on my read end, he will find it to be a frustrating experience.

Why?

Because he has no respect for the legality of his actions, and no respect for my safety, neither of which is his right or a legal action. In my 2000 pound car and his 5000 pound SUV, in essence he is pointing a gun to my head, PERIOD.

Its really amazing how the whole scenario changes when the aggressive idiots finally realize that they can not weave through the rest of the vehicles like some stupid video game where your car flies 300 feet in the air and bounces off 4 obstacles, and just miraculously keeps going.

Of course even then they follow the car in front of them at less than two car lengths, about 30 feet, at 60+ MPH, almost 90 feet per second, and in many cases there are 4 or more of these idiots in a conga line that whiplashes it way down the road with constant accelerations and stab braking that can cause miles of whiplash effects, if it was not for a few people who just drop off their speed a few MPH to avoid the mass stupidity.

Now if you wanted to drive 10 MPH below that 65 MPH speed limit, then you just need to get on old US route 60. 55 MPH and practically deserted, and a much more pleasant drive under any circumstances.

That's what I usually do, unless I have a 300+ mile daily drive and need to make certain points rather expeditiously. I actually get about the same mileage at 65 as I do at 55 when the traffic around here is heavy due to the effects of heavy traffic and the inevitable drafting that occurs on the 65 MPH Interstate.

[comptiger5000]

Exactly as Jacob said, when the **** hits the fan, it's worse when the cars are going faster.

However, just the fact that they were going faster doesn't significantly increase the risk of something happening. Speed typically only causes accidents when driving beyond the limits of the driver and/or car under the current conditions. Otherwise, it only makes them worse when they happen.

Of course, the safest speed is whatever allows you to maintain a safe distance from other vehicles, have adequate reaction time, and good vehicle control, etc. under the current conditions.