Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > DIY / How-to
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-26-2010, 08:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
puddleglum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Red Deer, AB
Posts: 421

Rondo - '07 Kia Rondo EX
Last 3: 20.47 mpg (US)

Tinkertoy2 - '00 Toyota Echo base
Team Toyota
Last 3: 46.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 39
Thanked 95 Times in 69 Posts
So, I've abandoned my original idea as a poor one. I explored the coolant tank heater idea, but have moved away from that as well. I don't have a block drain in this engine and the thermostat is in the lower rad hose. Using the 2 heater hoses will give poor circulation IMO. I did some more reading on the oil pan pad heaters and decided this MAY be the best route to try first. The more I read about preheating the oil and the coolant, the better I like the idea. My problem is that there is no flat surface on the pan large enough to place the heater. Has anyone successfully used something to level out the voids so I can make this work? Would JB weld work or is there something better? I'm wondering if I could live with a single contour if I could eliminate the compound contours? What do you think? Here is a picture of the pan.

__________________



Almost all my driving is done 1-5 miles at a time.
Best short trip: 2.4 l/100 km, 3.9 km
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-27-2010, 04:40 AM   #12 (permalink)
aero guerrilla
 
Piwoslaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,541

Svietlana II - '13 Peugeot 308SW e-HDI 6sp
90 day: 58.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,056
Thanked 630 Times in 396 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
My problem is that there is no flat surface on the pan large enough to place the heater. Has anyone successfully used something to level out the voids so I can make this work? Would JB weld work or is there something better? I'm wondering if I could live with a single contour if I could eliminate the compound contours? What do you think? Here is a picture of the pan.
Puddle, I don't see compound contours there. If what I'm looking at is your oil pan, then it's just wavy, but in one direction. It looks like you can find enough area there with a simple curve.

Take a piece of cardboard, cut it to the dimensions of a heating pad (1.5"x6" or 3" diameter round) and push it against the underside of the oil pan. If it's a simple curve, then you should be able to get max contact area without folding or stretching. Remember, you don't need to cover the whole pan
__________________
e·co·mod·ding: the art of turning vehicles into what they should be

What matters is where you're going, not how fast.

"... we humans tend to screw up everything that's good enough as it is...or everything that we're attracted to, we love to go and defile it." - Chris Cornell

Piwoslaw's Peugeot 307sw modding thread

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2010, 02:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 204
Thanks: 1
Thanked 30 Times in 21 Posts
http://www.webastoshowroom.com/images/truck_trifold.pdf
These work.... They use them on the Dalton..

A tank heater should fix your problem, you just have to work out the connection, MOST engines don't have block drains... The heater hoses should actually work fine as usually they are on opposite sides of the thermostat so they do push water through the block.

There are special fittings that replace a freeze plug on the block, fairly easy to install.
Or if you search almost all blocks or heads have threaded plugs for manufacturing/cleaning purposes.

Good Luck

Dave
__________________
If it has a motor its worth playing with.......
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2010, 07:48 PM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ryland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Western Wisconsin
Posts: 3,904

honda cb125 - '74 Honda CB 125 S1
90 day: 79.71 mpg (US)

green wedge - '81 Commuter Vehicles Inc. Commuti-Car

Blue VX - '93 Honda Civic VX
Thanks: 867
Thanked 433 Times in 353 Posts
I was a little shocked to find out that the cheapest block heater for my car was from the dealership and it screws right in to the block.
You can also get dipstick oil heaters, only 90 watts but that should be enough to thin the oil and get everything warming up quicker, they replace your dip stick so there is no way to really screw up installing one or removing it if you don't like it or want to move it to another vehicle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2010, 07:39 AM   #15 (permalink)
aero guerrilla
 
Piwoslaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,541

Svietlana II - '13 Peugeot 308SW e-HDI 6sp
90 day: 58.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,056
Thanked 630 Times in 396 Posts
Dipstick heaters tend to burn the oil around them, while pad heaters spread that heat over a much greater area (plus transfering the heat through the metal pan further diffuses the it).
Dipstick Oil Heater
__________________
e·co·mod·ding: the art of turning vehicles into what they should be

What matters is where you're going, not how fast.

"... we humans tend to screw up everything that's good enough as it is...or everything that we're attracted to, we love to go and defile it." - Chris Cornell

Piwoslaw's Peugeot 307sw modding thread

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2010, 01:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 553

Little Blue - '98 Ford Escort ZX2 Cool
Team ZX2
90 day: 44.75 mpg (US)

Big Red - '00 Ford Excursion XLT
90 day: 15.53 mpg (US)
Thanks: 5
Thanked 45 Times in 29 Posts
I use a 400w block heater, a 150w adhesive pad type heater on the oil pan and another 150w adhesive pad heater on the transmission pan. Mine were flat enough so they fit perfect, I just measured the pans and choose the appropriate size. My Coolant, Engine Oil and Transmission Fluid are all around 100 degrees F when I start it up in the morning, it goes out of open loop in about 20 yards. I typically see around a 4mpg loss on my morning commute if I don't plug it in.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2010, 02:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: duluth mn
Posts: 117
Thanks: 20
Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tygen1 View Post
I use a 400w block heater, a 150w adhesive pad type heater on the oil pan and another 150w adhesive pad heater on the transmission pan. Mine were flat enough so they fit perfect, I just measured the pans and choose the appropriate size. My Coolant, Engine Oil and Transmission Fluid are all around 100 degrees F when I start it up in the morning, it goes out of open loop in about 20 yards. I typically see around a 4mpg loss on my morning commute if I don't plug it in.
That's great. +10% mpg and a warm car seem like a no brainer. I assume you park in a garage and have it plugged in all night. If you idled a little do you think it would go out of open loop before driving at all?
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2010, 05:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 553

Little Blue - '98 Ford Escort ZX2 Cool
Team ZX2
90 day: 44.75 mpg (US)

Big Red - '00 Ford Excursion XLT
90 day: 15.53 mpg (US)
Thanks: 5
Thanked 45 Times in 29 Posts
No, I park outside and I have a timer that comes on about an hour before I leave. No idling for me, I just wait a moment for oil circulation then take off. It's running only very slightly rich in Open Loop anyhow, so there is no real benefit to letting it warm up any further.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2010, 07:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
puddleglum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Red Deer, AB
Posts: 421

Rondo - '07 Kia Rondo EX
Last 3: 20.47 mpg (US)

Tinkertoy2 - '00 Toyota Echo base
Team Toyota
Last 3: 46.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 39
Thanked 95 Times in 69 Posts
Thanks for the responses. I actually have a 150 Watt Kats pad on order from the US so I want to figure out a way to make it work. I guess I should have looked at the pan closer before I ordered it (me bad), but with the belly pan on, it's hard to see. I don't want to remove it until I get the pad. The picture is one I took before installing the belly pan and I remembered it after I had placed the order. The Kats pad is 4x5 so I need that large of an area, but I think the JB Weld might work. The left side of the pan is not as wavy. The Kats pad was 1/3 the price of the Wolverine one and higher wattage so I thought is was worth a try. Tygen1, your results are encouraging, I hope this helps me too.
__________________



Almost all my driving is done 1-5 miles at a time.
Best short trip: 2.4 l/100 km, 3.9 km
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2010, 09:54 PM   #20 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 553

Little Blue - '98 Ford Escort ZX2 Cool
Team ZX2
90 day: 44.75 mpg (US)

Big Red - '00 Ford Excursion XLT
90 day: 15.53 mpg (US)
Thanks: 5
Thanked 45 Times in 29 Posts
Keep in mind, I did not see a tank average increase of 4mpg, just the morning commute averages improved by that much with the heaters and this is in sub freezing temps, the benefit decreases as the temps rise, however I use the heaters year round
Don't sweat the voids too much, I left a decent sized void on my trans pan and it did not hurt anything. The conductors in the pad could overheat, so it might be nice to put in some epoxy, but most epoxys are insulators so they won't transmit the heat to the pan.

__________________
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Where to buy pad type engine block heaters? extragoode EcoModding Central 31 12-27-2010 05:31 AM
Scion xA block heater install Niner DIY / How-to 5 10-18-2010 01:11 PM
Geo Metro Block Heater How-to bbjsw10 DIY / How-to 75 12-31-2009 01:34 AM
macgyver block heater idea? modmonster EcoModding Central 16 02-21-2009 01:54 AM
Motorcycle + block heater = stupid idea? extragoode Motorcycles / Scooters 14 11-29-2008 10:43 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com