Engineering Explained: How much fuel does idling consume?

[Xist]

From what I have read, they are also putting special coating on the engine components to withstand temporary lack of oil.

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by ksa8907

Shouty... there's a real scientist...

I stopped watching after he said deep-cycle batteries aren't lead-acid, and that Priuses apparently use lithium-ion starter batteries.

Back when I frequented the Viper Club of America forum, there was a poster who was a retired oil formulator for Texaco and Shell. He never bothered with synthetic oil for his Viper, using Shell Rotella 15W-40 non-synthetic diesel oil, and he drove his car through the winter (he had more than 100,000 miles on it at the time, very unusual for a Viper). He also said that the myth of most engine wear occurring on startup is just that, a myth.

Everything I've read about startup wear has pointed to cold starts as the problem, with papers as far back as 1960 attributing the increased wear to condensed combustion byproducts and water. Modern start-stop systems don't turn the engine off until the coolant has reached a certain temperature (101 degrees F in the Prius for shutdown at vehicle stop and low speeds, 154 degrees F for full shutdown capability), which avoids that problem entirely.

[ProDigit]

Priuses use their electric motor to start the engine, so yes, they do use lithium batteries (the trunk battery) to start the engine.

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by ProDigit

Priuses use their electric motor to start the engine, so yes, they do use lithium batteries (the trunk battery) to start the engine.

The Prius 'motive' motor gets its power from the HV "traction battery", the small 12VDC battery (in trunk*) powers only the computer(s) and the accessories (lights, radio, USB, etc.).


* pre-2016 models, later models have 12VDC battery under hood now.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by slowmover

The diesel Ford will be closer to 1.0/gl-hr. Which should be the conservative number for planning.

Oddly enough, that 1.0 gph is about what my Insight burns at highway speeds :-)

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by ProDigit

Priuses use their electric motor to start the engine, so yes, they do use lithium batteries (the trunk battery) to start the engine.

The Prius uses a NiMh battery. Only the plug-in Prius and 1 model of the gen 4 Prii uses a lithium ion battery.

It's comments like that, which could easily be researched before saying, that turn me off of Shouty's videos. That, and all the shouting.

[Xist]

Why research when you already know everything?!

You Already Know Everything You Need To Know, Just Go

I already knew that! :P

(I just felt like researching, even though I was joking)

Does anyone know if he ever made a video about using ear protection to avoid hearing loss?

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by ProDigit

Priuses use their electric motor to start the engine, so yes, they do use lithium batteries (the trunk battery) to start the engine.

As redpoint5 said, prior to 2016 no non-plug-in Prius had a lithium ion battery.

This Shouty character seems to think that OEMs employ armies of engineers for no reason, take years to develop new models for no reason, do no wear or longevity testing, and that his "common sense" is worth more than their investment in said engineers and cars. The guy is an idiot, and that's what bothers me most about him.

Oh, one more thing--he doesn't know the difference between "electronic" and "electric." See previous statement.

[ProDigit]

I don't know when the video was taken from the Prius, however, modern 2017 and 2018 models use Lithium batteries.

I think Shouty knows about as much of priuses (or more) than me.

And that would probably include, that many EVs (hybrids) use their large battery pack to start the motor in case of start-stop.
Not all of them.


If the Prius is anything like the Tesla, the 12V battery is used to power the electronics in case of a depleted battery pack, as well as use the 12V to start the engine in case it is depleted.

I can admit I don't own a Prius, and don't know much of it, but reading from the post below, it appears to me that the Prius mainly uses it's battery pack to start the motor.

And 2017 and 2018 priuses use a Lithium battery pack, so in that case, Mr Shouty was right!

https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-Prius-starter-work

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by ProDigit

If the Prius is anything like the Tesla, the 12V battery is used to power the electronics in case of a depleted battery pack, as well as use the 12V to start the engine in case it is depleted.

The Prius only uses the traction battery to start the engine; the 12V powers the computers and accessories. It cannot "start the engine in case [the battery pack] is depleted." That's the trade-off between Toyota Hybrids and the early Honda hybrids--Toyotas have always required a functioning HV battery for the vehicle to move (Hondas do too now, but their earlier IMSA hybrid system did not).

Originally Posted by ProDigit

And 2017 and 2018 priuses use a Lithium battery pack, so in that case, Mr Shouty was right!

Starting with the 2016 model year, all Prius trims use a lithium ion HV battery except the 2, which continues to use a NiMH battery. Priuses equipped with lithium ion batteries comprise less than 10% of all Priuses sold in the US in the last 17 years--but they all use stop-start, lithium ion batteries not required. And no Prius has ever come equipped with a 12V lithium ion battery, the picture Shouty displayed when he said "lithium ion batteries, like in the Priuses."

Shouty also remains wrong about the larger point he was trying to argue: that cars equipped with stop-start systems can't handle repeated stop/start cycles. He asserts that "stop-start works great in hybrid cars because they were designed that way," and seems unaware that non-hybrid cars with stop-start are also designed to handle the system--the OEMs wouldn't waste project budget to engineer, sell and warranty them otherwise.

Furthermore, if Shouty thinks the biggest danger of constant on-off cycles is trashing crankshaft bearings or other mechanical damage to the engine, the Prius and other hybrids constitute a mountain of evidence against his assertion. He seems to think that stop-start systems are a brand new thing on the market, when they've been around since the 1980s and are found today on everything from Bentleys to Kias. In the US, Ford has sold cars with them since 2010; Chevrolet since 2012; Honda since 2000; Toyota since 2001. If these systems were causing engine failures left and right, we'd know it by now.

Shouty is not an engineer. Shouty doesn't like change. Don't be like Shouty.