EPA implements E85 testing for 2016 model year

[Xist]

If my car ran on BS I would be rich!

[roosterk0031]

Refilled today E27 netting 42 mpg on a car rated for 37. E10 tops out at 44-45 during the summer. E50 in the tank now, I'm guessing it will drop to 39.5. 2/3's BTU's says I should get 36.7.

Find out next week, dang, going to have non-typical driving this weekend so test won't be very valid.

[Hersbird]

Frank Lee said, "The impoverished- mainly seniors, right?- often spend so much on health care and meds it squeezes necessities out."

Actually seniors are the wealthiest age group in the US with 47 TIMES (not 47%) the average net worth of those households headed by somebody under 35.Old Americans are 47 times richer than young - Nov. 7, 2011
And then they, who can most afford and who most use the healthcare system push politicians to create a program to make those households with 1/47th the wealth who are using the system much less, subsidize their cost.

[Daox]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Frank Lee said, "The impoverished- mainly seniors, right?- often spend so much on health care and meds it squeezes necessities out."

Actually seniors are the wealthiest age group in the US with 47 TIMES (not 47%) the average net worth of those households headed by somebody under 35.Old Americans are 47 times richer than young - Nov. 7, 2011
And then they, who can most afford and who most use the healthcare system push politicians to create a program to make those households with 1/47th the wealth who are using the system much less, subsidize their cost.

Doesn't this just make sense? Obviously the net worth of someone working for 40+ years should be a lot higher than someone who has been working half of that. It doesn't mean their income is the same though. People budget based off their income, not net worth.

[Big Dave]

Originally Posted by Daox

I'm going to have to say Frank is right in that just because it has a 30% lower BTU content doesn't mean it gets 30% lower fuel economy.

Big Dave asks:
What turns the wheels? Answer: Heat.

I recently looked into jacking up the compression on my Impala to take advantage of the honest 120 octane of natural gas. By going up to 13.5:1 compression (you can be pretty fearless with 120 octane) and maximizing spark advance an 11% efficiency improvement. In a mature technology like spark-ignition engines 11% is HUGE.

Assuming that 100 octane E85 would work OK at 13.5:1 compression, an 11% improvement in efficiency cannot overcome a 34% loss in heat content and a 27% deficit in $/MMBTU.

It's not some deep dark conspiracy. It's just thermodynamic fundamentals. Heat turns the wheels. Period. End of story. It ain't octane. It ain't spark advance or some other electronic gimmick.

The notion of getting better MPG than heat content would indicate is just unicorn manure. The great cosmic search for "something for nothing."

[Big Dave]

Re: Posts #54 and #55

I thought this forum was supposed to be about vehicles.

[Daox]

I don't disagree that heat turns wheels. I just disagree that a 30% reduction in heat leads directly to 30% less mileage. With modern engine systems, its not a 30% reduction due to electronic optimization of ignition timing which ethanol has an advantage in because of the higher octane.

[Frank Lee]

That's right Dave, all of us that actually DO IT have lying eyes. You win; it's all BTUs and what- a 30% fe drop. /sarc

I think it may be acting like a lean burn what with the oxygenated fuel and at times lack of being capable of being "rich enough".

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Daox

Doesn't this just make sense? Obviously the net worth of someone working for 40+ years should be a lot higher than someone who has been working half of that. It doesn't mean their income is the same though. People budget based off their income, not net worth.

In America, people don't budget. We're a nation of entitled jerks.

It make sense that older people would have more wealth than younger people. What doesn't make sense is for those younger people to subsidize healthcare for those wealthier people.

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Big Dave asks:
What turns the wheels? Answer: Heat.

I recently looked into jacking up the compression on my Impala to take advantage of the honest 120 octane of natural gas. By going up to 13.5:1 compression (you can be pretty fearless with 120 octane) and maximizing spark advance an 11% efficiency improvement. In a mature technology like spark-ignition engines 11% is HUGE.

Assuming that 100 octane E85 would work OK at 13.5:1 compression, an 11% improvement in efficiency cannot overcome a 34% loss in heat content and a 27% deficit in $/MMBTU.

It's not some deep dark conspiracy. It's just thermodynamic fundamentals. Heat turns the wheels. Period. End of story. It ain't octane. It ain't spark advance or some other electronic gimmick.

The notion of getting better MPG than heat content would indicate is just unicorn manure. The great cosmic search for "something for nothing."

I think you would agree that the particulars of HOW a fuel is burned and the energy used changes the thermal efficiency.