EPA to reject Obama fuel efficiency standards early next week

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Xist

Fine. Cripple Rooster, do you believe the 2020 CAFE standards are stupid. Yes or no? Feel free to expound if you so desire.

I haven't read them yet, but I do believe any upcoming CAFE standard won't be so easily achieved as long as the major automakers keep somewhat rejecting technologies developed by third-parties. Plus there is still that inherent inefficiency in cars and trucks designed specifically for the USDM, which in part I actually blame NHTSA for, most notably in the commercial vehicles market. You know, why can anybody else in the world still get a brand-new forward-control van with a 4-cyl engine under 3-litre while Americans business owners (and eventually some private and recreational users too) are not granted the same possibility?

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Xist

...do you believe the 2020 CAFE standards are stupid.

You're not asking me, and perhaps because I've already answered many times prior, but I KNOW the CAFE standards are idiotic.

The whole premise of CAFE is that the health of people and of the environment requires emissions to be maintained within certain limits.

When a problem is identified, the government needs to promote the most creative and efficient solutions possible. They have no business dictating the small details of the solution.

IF CO2 is a big enough problem, then the government needs to set a target, and artificially raise the price of burning fossil fuels such that the target is met. Let the industry and people determine how we get there. Let us carpool, ride bicycles, take public transportation, or buy more fuel efficient vehicles.

You see, the root problem is not that vehicles get too poor of fuel economy (although it is a problem), it's presumably that too many bad emissions are released. Attack the core problem, not some fringe, barely noticeable contributing factor.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

IF CO2 is a big enough problem, then the government needs to set a target, and artificially raise the price of burning fossil fuels such that the target is met. Let the industry and people determine how we get there. Let us carpool, ride bicycles, take public transportation, or buy more fuel efficient vehicles.

It does surprise me that public transportation is not taken so seriously in the U.S. as it is in other developed countries. When it comes to more fuel-efficient vehicles, I guess it would embrace not only cars but also motorcycles...

[roosterk0031]

For most commuters IMO motorcycle aren't worth it unless you don't own a car, in the US if you are only going to own one it should be a car and car are cheaper per mile in my experience if you own car long term and throw in winters cars win. I get 40 mpg with my Cobalt paid, $7000 for it, 200,000+ mile later still running. I put about 100,000 miles one misc bikes before it never broke 45 mpg, on some tires cost more per mile the gas. Much of US is too spread out for public transit

The majority won't buy a junkier bike or replace their own oil etc.... Bikes are expensive. maybe not there but for the majority bikes are toys and dealers charge accordingly.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by roosterk0031

For most commuters IMO motorcycle aren't worth it unless you don't own a car, in the US if you are only going to own one it should be a car and car are cheaper per mile in my experience if you own car long term and throw in winters cars win.

Just to remind: my perspective on motorcycles and economy/efficiency are quite different than what stereotypical Harley-Davidson riders would have in mind.

Much of US is too spread out for public transit

There are large cities in Brazil that could be considered as spread out as American ones. Well, considering the American experience with school buses, maybe it wouldn't be too hard to develop public transit back there, even if it ends up resembling more the "alternative" systems with vans that are usual in slums instead of the BRT system from Curitiba.

[Xist]

The White House is trying to freeze CAFE goals until 2026 and revoke California's ability to set its own standards (which twelve other states copy). Usually I like the comments on Jalopnik, but this was all political nonsense. https://jalopnik.com/trump-epa-plans...026-1825607864

And then there is this wall of text: Why U.S. Carmakers Could End Up Wishing They Never Asked For Weaker Fuel Economy Standards

[redpoint5]

While it annoys me that my state is affected by rules CA imposes, I have a higher value for States rights and a lesser value for Federal rights. The whole point of "The United States of America" is that they are a collection of experimental states protected (and weakly regulated) by a unifying governing body.

States should be able to do whatever they want so long as they don't violate certain basic human rights, or unduly harm shared resources such as the environment and air. The federal government needs to be 10% of it's current size as they have far overstepped their purpose. Their job is to provide defense for the member states, ensure civil rights are not violated, set certain environmental standards, negotiate foreign relations, and little else.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Xist

The White House is trying to freeze CAFE goals until 2026 and revoke California's ability to set its own standards (which twelve other states copy).

I wouldn't hold my breath for any of those possibilities, and even though I don't believe the average Joe would be so supportive of the rising prices on any new compact car due to the cost added by the tech required in order to achieve such goals, it doesn't seem technically impossible at all. A simple look at those Prius repowering into older American iron and the quite recent introduction of a FWD full-size van in America got me thinking about it. Not to mention the Volvo XC90 which has nearly the size of a Tahoe but is now fitted exclusively with 4-cyl engines. Well, I don't know how a random redneck would react to a 4-cyl transverse-engined FWD equivalent of an F-250, or someone who claims to be a hardcore off-road enthusiast whining that all-around independent suspension would ruin oneself's adventures at the nearest mall's parking lot in a 4Runner (even though the VW Beetle had already been proven quite off-road capable with its primitive 4-wheel independent suspension, and all those Baja bugs too), but some actual improvement to average fuel-efficiency doesn't seem totally out of reach.

[Xist]

But this is a democracy!

[Xist]

Utilities & Tesla appeal federal rollback of auto emissions standards