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Old 04-16-2018, 12:13 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Air quality mostly improved due to catalytic converters being mandated and fuel injection. The government has authority in setting acceptable limits of pollutants, but they certainly shouldn't be micro-managing how to achieve these results.

The point of fuel efficiency standards is presumably to lower emissions and dependence on foreign oil, but often the result of increasing efficiency is increasing consumption.

The right way to reduce emissions would be to manipulate the price via taxation to achieve the desired emission levels. It allows the consumers to find the most efficient way to achieve those results and leaves little opportunity to creatively work around the rules.

Of course, this is too easy, and can't really be leveraged for political purposes. Politicians get elected by being hard on those "evil" auto manufacturers, but would be despised in those same states for increasing taxes, which is effectively very similar.

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Old 04-17-2018, 10:19 AM   #22 (permalink)
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We now know that injected gasoline engines put out more particulates than filtered diesel. Particulates are quite damaging, and the long term health effects are unavoidable.
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:48 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
We now know that injected gasoline engines put out more particulates than filtered diesel.
I guess you meant direct-injected gasoline engines, which in most cases follow the downsizing bandwagon. Well, no wonder Toyota seems to be still committed to port injection and natural aspiration in entry-level models instead of fully embracing the downsizing, at least they can keep it simple and avoid the expenses of adding a particulate filter. BTW the first gasser I saw which was fitted with a particulate filter is the Volkswagen Tiguan Allspace, which according to some sources got this feature as an attempt to whitewash Volkswagen's reputation in the Dieselgate aftermath.
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Old 04-21-2018, 04:21 PM   #24 (permalink)
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adding up

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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I like the perspective given here, and the attempt at numbers, but they aren't adding up.

Americans consume 145,000,000,000 gallons of fuel per year. At $2.75/gal, that's about $400 billion/yr. How would the more stringent standard reduce fuel consumption by 1/4?

This also assumes that fuel economy would not otherwise improve at all without government mandate. Not only that, but there is cost associated with hybrid systems, and other research and development of fuel saving technology.

I'm not saying CAFE hasn't contributed to higher fuel economy, only that it isn't simple enough to give CAFE all the credit for saving all the money, or to even determine how much money was saved in the first place.
The quanta are from 2014 Energy Information Agency, of D.O.E.
* 261,800,000 light vehicles
* 13,476 miles per year
* 21.4 mpg ave
*compared to 13-mpg of pre-CAFE
*@ $2.199/gallon
*12-year lifespan of vehicle
*The prediction is from holding the vehicle population,annual mileage,and fuel price constant at the 2014 values.
* Just a simplified representation.
* The Federal Reserve requires banks to maintain 5% liquidity,then they're free to loan out the other 95-cents of each Dollar.If you take the consumer savings per vehicle and multiply by 261,800,000 we get the US total savings per year.That value,divided by 0.05 yields the capital created by the 5%.
American motorists could actually buy quite a number of car corporations each year with the money they waste on fuel.
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The 2025 vehicles would cost more,but they're gonna cost some more anyway,just due to inflation, in between now and then.
The fuel savings from the Obama standard would overwhelm the initial MSRP sticker price hit at the car lot,showing a life-cycle profit to the consumer.
If I've screwed up the math I apologize and will make things right.I'm not a bean-counter and I don't get paid the big bucks.The real bean counters are staying away from the dance.
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:51 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Soo...I see a lot of related conversation...did the EPA vote to reject it or what? It's been more than a week. (Maybe I missed the post)
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:38 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Soo...I see a lot of related conversation...did the EPA vote to reject it or what? It's been more than a week. (Maybe I missed the post)
The decision appears delayed by resistance from multiple states with enormous power in the market declaring they will not cooperate. That sets up a legal battle with constitutional implications. This EPA has been quite inept in court and in rule framing, so I imagine their delay might be prudent. Try to get an argument together that can sustain scrutiny on both science and legal grounds.
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Old 04-22-2018, 01:30 PM   #27 (permalink)
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The decision appears delayed by resistance from multiple states with enormous power in the market declaring they will not cooperate. That sets up a legal battle with constitutional implications. This EPA has been quite inept in court and in rule framing, so I imagine their delay might be prudent. Try to get an argument together that can sustain scrutiny on both science and legal grounds.
That just about sums it up...
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Old 04-22-2018, 04:02 PM   #28 (permalink)
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That just about sums it up...
A competent conservative EPA would know to come up with something better, more technical, more defensible in court than reducing CAFE standards will increase highway safety. Yeesh. That's some weak BS right there.
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Old 04-22-2018, 05:38 PM   #29 (permalink)
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A competent conservative EPA would know to come up with something better, more technical, more defensible in court than reducing CAFE standards will increase highway safety. Yeesh. That's some weak BS right there.
Do you have a source for that? I did a search and just got The Salt Lake Tribune referring to CAFÉ standards.

Are they talking about coffee or coffee shops?
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Old 04-22-2018, 07:07 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Do you have a source for that? I did a search and just got The Salt Lake Tribune referring to CAFÉ standards.

Are they talking about coffee or coffee shops?
See? This is why I gotta stay outta the lounge... Here I am telling everyone that Elvis Aaron Presley ought to keep his café standards when everyone knows he likes the Peanut Butter & Bannana Sandwiches and won't change.

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