Episode V: The Insight Strikes Back

[MetroMPG]

Don't get me wrong, james: I think the Insight is an amazing machine.

I believe EV mode is one reason of several why Toyota has had so much more success with the Prius vs. the Civic hybrid. From a marketing perspective: without exception, everyone I've talked to who has driven a Toyota hybrid has commented on how incredibly "cool" low speed EV mode is.

Also: All Toyota hybrids are either theoretically or currently retrofittable as PHEVs with extended EV range. Non-EV mode Honda hybrids will continue to be ignored in that arena, and Toyota will continue to reap the marketing benefits of being associated with it. (Indeed, Honda's official stance is that they're not interested in PHEVs, which suggests they're not going to do EV mode in the new cars.)

[cfg83]

MetroMPG -

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Don't get me wrong, james: I think the Insight is an amazing machine.

I believe EV mode is one reason of several why Toyota has had so much more success with the Prius vs. the Civic hybrid. From a marketing perspective: without exception, everyone I've talked to who has driven a Toyota hybrid has commented on how incredibly "cool" low speed EV mode is.

Also: All Toyota hybrids are either theoretically or currently retrofittable as PHEVs with extended EV range. Non-EV mode Honda hybrids will continue to be ignored in that arena, and Toyota will continue to reap the marketing benefits of being associated with it. (Indeed, Honda's official stance is that they're not interested in PHEVs, which suggests they're not going to do EV mode in the new cars.)

I definitely think the marketing part is true. From a hypermiler POV, I am disappointed in the lack of a manual hybrid. Honda provided that in the Insight and "1st gen" Civic Hybrid, so I am biased in favor of those drivetrains. But, as usual, I am in the extreeeeeeeeeme minority of the driving public.

Unless there is a big price difference, I wouldn't be surprised of the next Honda Hybrid is forward-compatible to PHEV. Wasn't Toyota's original stance anti-PHEV?

CarloSW2

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Also: All Toyota hybrids are either theoretically or currently retrofittable as PHEVs with extended EV range. Non-EV mode Honda hybrids will continue to be ignored in that arena...

Insights certainly can be modified to be PHEVs - people have for instance added a second battery pack in parallel, with recharging from the grid. That Prius conversions are more common is simply because there are a lot more of them. (Which traces back to the fact that since Honda Intended the Insight as a real-world experiment sold below cost of production, they never wanted to sell a large number.)

As for the success of Prius vs Civic hybrid, there's a better explanation: the Prius is readily identifiable, while the Civic hybrid looks like any other Civic, so people who wanted to make a statement bought the Prius. Let Honda come out with their own identifiable hybrid(s), and that will change.

You don't get the EV-only mode (at least in a practical form), but I'd argue that, coolness aside, its usefulness is actually pretty limited. You either use X amount of grid-electricity to go a short distance in EV mode, or you can use the same amount to boost the engine so that it stays in the lean-burn mode for a longer time. Then if you live in a cold climate, you have to run the engine anyway to get cabin heat...