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Old 08-03-2012, 06:07 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Since I live in Minnesota we have to use E10 in all fuel. I do notice an improvemnt when I do buy gas out of state that is not required ethonal blend.
If there was a price brake in my state I would do a compairson and fiugre out what was cheaper per mile.

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Old 08-04-2012, 02:03 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I saw a 4% drop in mpg in my '96 Subaru Legacy when Oregon mandated E10. If I lived in a place that allowed the consumer freedom to choose what to run, I would only choose E10 if it were at least 5% cheaper than E0; about 17 cents cheaper with current fuel prices.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always hear that corn-based ethanol is government subsidized. If this is true, then we aren't directly seeing the cost of E blended fuel.

We need to remove subsidies for both petroleum and ethanol and allow the market to do what it does best; balance supply, demand, and cost.

With as many shortcomings as it has, petroleum prices are at least drought-immune. I spoke with a few farmers in CO recently, and they say if the mountains don't get a good snow pack, there won't be enough water for corn next year.
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:16 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I saw a 4% drop in mpg in my '96 Subaru Legacy when Oregon mandated E10. If I lived in a place that allowed the consumer freedom to choose what to run, I would only choose E10 if it were at least 5% cheaper than E0; about 17 cents cheaper with current fuel prices.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always hear that corn-based ethanol is government subsidized. If this is true, then we aren't directly seeing the cost of E blended fuel.

We need to remove subsidies for both petroleum and ethanol and allow the market to do what it does best; balance supply, demand, and cost.

With as many shortcomings as it has, petroleum prices are at least drought-immune. I spoke with a few farmers in CO recently, and they say if the mountains don't get a good snow pack, there won't be enough water for corn next year.
unless they extended it, the subsidy expired the 31st of last year but the mandate remains.

here in indiana, there are whole fields of corn that were dying as early as last month, ears are severely underdeveloped. beans aren't any better.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:01 AM   #24 (permalink)
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unless they extended it, the subsidy expired the 31st of last year but the mandate remains.
Yes the some of the subsidies ended. Also 3 Ethonal plants closed this yes do to lossing money.

Bad year for corn everywere.
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:15 PM   #25 (permalink)
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As I understand it, Top Tier Gasoline is not ethanol-free.

This is from Top Tier Gasoline
Deposit Control Standards
:

Quote:
1.3.1.2 Base Fuel. The base fuel shall conform to ASTM D 4814 and shall contain commercial fuel grade ethanol conforming to ASTM D 4806. All gasoline blend stocks used to formulate the base fuel shall be representative of normal U.S. refinery operations and shall be derived from conversion units downstream of distillation. Butanes and pentanes are allowed for vapor pressure adjustment. The use of chemical streams is prohibited. The base fuel shall have the following specific properties after the addition of ethanol:

1. Contain enough denatured ethanol such that the actual ethanol content is no less than 8.0 and no more than 10.0 volume percent.
...
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:24 PM   #26 (permalink)
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OCTANE is a benefit if/when you can dynamically increase (ie: turbocharging) the engines' compression ratio so as to USE its higher knock resistance; otherwise, it's simply a GOOD thing that can NOT be used.
Not entirely true. The effective compression depends on the precise point in the compression/expansion stroke at which the spark ignites the fuel. So if your car is built so that at TDC it has 10:1 compression, a few degrees after it'll be 9.5:1, a few degrees later 9:1, etc.

I believe (though I don't claim to be an expert) that this is how most engines are designed these days. They have a higher built-in compression than would work with the octane of regular gas, and anti-knock sensors adjust the ignition timing so that it is running just on the edge of knock.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:54 PM   #27 (permalink)
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...maximum MEP produces best MPG at lowest RPM.

...thus, relying solely upon VVT does NOT "extract" the MOST from gasoline having higher octane, it only yields "...slightly more knock resistance than the regular octane."

...actually 'boosting' the effective-CR (via turbocharging), allows ignition to occur at the "optimum" crank-angle that produces maximum MEP, instead of too soon/too late as happens with VVT alone.
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:01 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I work 2 blocks from a gas truck filling pipe line/ tank farm/ sip unloading point... I see all brands of gas trucks go by, speedway, marathon, bp, Mobil, off brands, snoco, The only brand I do not recall seeing is shell, but there are only a few around here and I think they get it from a local non branded tanker.

Each truck could still have a different blend put in but that is mostly just smoke and mirrors. one brand of additives to another is no different. % gas vs ethanol does change somewhat but all the stations around here us 10%. Walmart gas just sucks MPG and performance. about 8% for me. Same price but worse quality or additives. things like lawn mowers run badly on that gas

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