Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Off-Topic Tech
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-04-2010, 10:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Failed emissions

Hi,

I have a 1997 S10 4.3L that failed its emission test on Hydrocarbon and Oxides of nitrogen. It has a misfire and the oil smells like gas. I did a compression test and vacuum test, and both seemed fine.

Here is the data from my latest OBD2 scan:

OBD-II Diagnostic Report

System Status (Mode 01)
Trouble Codes
MIL Status Off
Number of DTCs 0
Continuous Monitoring tests
Misfire Supported Complete
Fuel System Supported Complete
Comprehensive Components Supported Complete
non-Continuous Monitoring tests
Catalyst Supported Not Complete
Heated Catalyst Not Supported
Evaporative System Supported Not Complete
Secondary Air System Not Supported
A/C System Refrigerant Not Supported
Oxygen Sensor Not Supported
Oxygen Sensor Heater Supported Complete
EGR System Supported Not Complete
Fuel System Status
Fuel System 1 Status open loop
Fuel System 2 Status open loop
Diagnostic Trouble Codes (Mode 03, 07, 0A)
Description
Stored Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC) (Mode 03)
No Trouble Codes
Pending Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC) (Mode 07)
No Trouble Codes
Permanent Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC) (Mode 0A)
No Trouble Codes

Monitored Test Results (Mode 06)
Description Value Min Max Units Result
TID $02, CID $04 - Values defined by manufacturer 0 0 Pass
TID $02, CID $16 - Values defined by manufacturer 0 0 Pass
TID $02, CID $26 - Values defined by manufacturer 0 0 Pass
TID $02, CID $36 - Values defined by manufacturer 0 0 Pass
TID $02, CID $46 - Values defined by manufacturer 0 0 Pass
TID $02, CID $10 - Values defined by manufacturer 0 0 Pass
TID $02, CID $20 - Values defined by manufacturer 0 0 Pass
TID $02, CID $30 - Values defined by manufacturer 0 0 Pass
TID $02, CID $40 - Values defined by manufacturer 0 0 Pass
TID $02, CID $12 - Values defined by manufacturer 0 0 Pass
TID $02, CID $11 - Values defined by manufacturer 0 0 Pass
TID $02, CID $21 - Values defined by manufacturer 0 0 Pass
TID $02, CID $31 - Values defined by manufacturer 0 0 Pass
TID $04, CID $20 - Values defined by manufacturer 32768 32767 Fail
TID $06, CID $35 - Values defined by manufacturer 24 88 Pass
TID $06, CID $41 - Values defined by manufacturer 29 105 Pass
TID $06, CID $47 - Values defined by manufacturer 36 213 Pass
TID $06, CID $55 - Values defined by manufacturer 24 88 Pass
TID $07, CID $0C - Values defined by manufacturer 32768 0 Fail
TID $07, CID $0D - Values defined by manufacturer 32768 0 Fail

Live Data (Mode 01)
Description Value Units Min Average Max
03 - Fuel System Status
Fuel System 1 open loop - 1.00 1.00 1.00
Fuel System 2 open loop - 1.00 1.00 1.00
04 - Calculated Load Value 2 % 1.96 2.21 5.88
05 - Engine Coolant Temperature 48 C 48.00 48.80 50.00
06 - Short Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1 -7.8 % -9.38 -3.42 -0.78
07 - Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1 0.0 % 0.00 0.00 0.00
08 - Short Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2 -7.0 % -12.50 -4.86 -0.78
09 - Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2 0.0 % 0.00 0.00 0.00
0B - Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure 32 kPa 22.00 30.80 32.00
0C - Engine RPM 694 rpm 639.75 728.36 1575.00
0D - Vehicle Speed 0 km/h 0.00 0.00 0.00
0E - Ignition Timing Advance for #1 Cylinder 20 18.50 21.30 26.00
0F - Intake Air Temperature 39 C 39.00 39.60 42.00
10 - Air Flow Rate 5.37 g/s 5.13 5.49 7.84
11 - Absolute Throttle Position 0.0 % 0.00 0.00 0.00
14 - Bank 1 - Sensor 1
Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage 0.525 V 0.11 0.72 1.02
Short Term Fuel Trim -7.8 % -9.37 -3.36 -1.56
15 - Bank 1 - Sensor 2
Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage 0.130 V 0.13 0.68 1.03
Short Term Fuel Trim 99.2 % 99.21 99.21 99.21
16 - Bank 1 - Sensor 3
Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage 0.080 V 0.07 0.63 1.02
Short Term Fuel Trim 99.2 % 99.21 99.21 99.21
18 - Bank 2 - Sensor 1
Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage 0.205 V 0.12 0.70 1.01
Short Term Fuel Trim -7.8 % -12.50 -4.86 -2.34
1E - Power Take Off Status OFF - 0.00 0.00 0.00


  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-05-2010, 12:45 AM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
mwebb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 506

no nickname , it's just a car - '04 volkswagen golf tdi
Thanks: 2
Thanked 101 Times in 74 Posts
air flow too high

at 694 rpm air flow = 5.37 gm/s
too high - these have a MAF sensor ? i thought they were speed density ?
if speed density , intake vacuum is too low
if MAF it would be a digital MAF .

STFT = -8% and LTFT = 0%

whenever i see a vortech engine subtracting fuel , i think INJECTOR
those injector assemblies with the built in pressure regulators leak in to the manifold .... common failure , hard to prove without test equipment

can you get misfire counters ?
both current and history , if yes , display them at hot idle - i bet they will flag 1 or more cylinders

hi HC is always misfire or cat converter or both
hi nox , restricted EGR or some cylinders can be lean because the 02 sensor corrects for total fuel trim , if you are subtracting 8% , the system is correcting for 1 or 2 rich or misfiring cylinders and the rest of the cylinders are getting the same correction
so they are lean

bad cat also is suspect for hi nox but you need to resolve the subtracting fuel at idle thing first

what software are you using ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 11:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
When I had a friend check with his Snap on tool it had a random misfire. So there is defiantly a problem there.
I have replaced the injection spider with the newer MFI system last year when I thought I had a stuck poppet and leaky regulator.
Yes these motors have a electronic MAF sensor in the snorkel.

I was scanning with a ELMSCAN 5 USB with Scanmaster software.
I will not be able to check for misfires on this tool.
Maybe those Mode 6 failures can tell me something if I can decipher them.

I am going crazy here because of the amount of things I have replaced.
The cap, rotor, wires and plugs are fairly new. They are also my second set after a shop replaced them again on me. I pulled the distributor on the weekend to look for a worn gear or shaft. Timing chain has some wear. I am thinking the camshaft retard may be off. These motors have a fixed distributor, so i would have to ovalize the hold down bolts to be able to adjust it.

Replaced so far in the last year and half
Plugs, wires, cap, rotor
Intake manifold gasket 5 years ago
Coolant temp sensor
Air filter
Fuel Injection spider
All 4 Oxygen sensors
Catalytic converter (old one was broken up inside)
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 02:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The three Mode 6 tests I failed and what they are

TID 04 CID 20 - Steady State catalyst test bank 1
TID 07 CID 0C - No EGR off-idle test MAF Out of range high/low
TID 07 CID 0D - EGR decel test
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 07:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Silly-Con Valley
Posts: 1,417
Thanks: 173
Thanked 226 Times in 174 Posts
The numbers 32767 and 32768 showing up are a major red flag to any computer geek. Those are "magic numbers"; 32767 is the largest signed integer that can be represented (by one's complement) in a 16-bit word. That tells me that something is funky with the software, even if it is just trying to print a number it doesn't understand correctly.

Misfires need to be corrected. Fuel-smelling oil needs to be changed. (Period. It is no longer as thick as it should be, so it is not protecting your engine parts correctly, and it also contributes to tailpipe emissions.)

Oil that smells like fuel is either due to a very very rich mixture, or possibly from a misfire. So finding and fixing the misfire might solve the problem of fuel getting into your oil.

Once you have the misfire corrected and the oil changed, try another test. You might be able to squeak by.

-soD
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 11:11 AM   #6 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by some_other_dave View Post
The numbers 32767 and 32768 showing up are a major red flag to any computer geek. Those are "magic numbers"; 32767 is the largest signed integer that can be represented (by one's complement) in a 16-bit word. That tells me that something is funky with the software, even if it is just trying to print a number it doesn't understand correctly.

Misfires need to be corrected. Fuel-smelling oil needs to be changed. (Period. It is no longer as thick as it should be, so it is not protecting your engine parts correctly, and it also contributes to tailpipe emissions.)

Oil that smells like fuel is either due to a very very rich mixture, or possibly from a misfire. So finding and fixing the misfire might solve the problem of fuel getting into your oil.

Once you have the misfire corrected and the oil changed, try another test. You might be able to squeak by.

-soD
Thing is, I cant figure out why its misfiring. I have changed plugs, wires, cap rotor, even pulled the distributor and looked for wear. The injection system is a year old.
Maybe the EGR is constantly dumping exhaust gases into the intake?
A few more things to try then its time to take it into a shop.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2010, 02:42 AM   #7 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
mwebb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 506

no nickname , it's just a car - '04 volkswagen golf tdi
Thanks: 2
Thanked 101 Times in 74 Posts
MAF is out of range

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burned View Post
The three Mode 6 tests I failed and what they are

TID 04 CID 20 - Steady State catalyst test bank 1
TID 07 CID 0C - No EGR off-idle test MAF Out of range high/low
TID 07 CID 0D - EGR decel test
there it is again , i flagged it above
MAF sensor is out of range , may not be a bad MAF sensor .

a vacuum leak or clogged or restricted exhaust could flag MAF values as incorrect for conditions

EGR can not run if MAP is out of range as MAP is used for the EGR test
vacuum leak can affect MAP and MAF values .

what is intake vacuum at hot idle ?
should be 20 to 21" at seal level and more important needle must be steady smooth with zero flutter

your system may be in open loop as
Long Term Fuel trim can never be zero , LTFT should adjust total trim to keep STFT bouncing on zero , equal amounts above and below
your LTFT = 0 can not be in closed loop

did those MODE 6 tests fail ? or just not run ?
the ECM will never run a CAT test with a p0300

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2010, 02:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I guess the mode 6 isn't that important for emissions. My friends Blazer failed the same tests as mine. Yet his passed emissions testing with flying colors.

His MAP read 35kPa, mine read 32kPa.
The only difference I see in the reading of the 2 vehicles is my LTFT, and the fact that his passed all the "non-Continuous Monitoring tests" on the scantool.
Our MAF readings were the same at around 5g/s

The vacuum reading was 20 at idle and it held steady (no flutter)

I am going to pull the EGR and clean it, high carbon in these engines.
I will also take a look at the CAT, I hope its good, its only a year old!
Maybe run some propane around the intakes looking for leaks.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 10:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wink

Swapping this out made a big difference!



Time to log more data.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Prius VS. TDI (which to buy) BrianAbington General Efficiency Discussion 79 01-30-2016 12:58 AM
Anyone tried HHO on a diesel? j.kansas EcoModding Central 99 07-28-2015 08:17 PM
New automotive emissions standards Piwoslaw General Efficiency Discussion 9 11-21-2011 05:10 AM
Pick Your Poison - Whose gas to buy? SVOboy General Efficiency Discussion 84 11-22-2010 11:19 PM
Emissions Standards - "Good For Fuel Efficiency," Consumption Data Says trebuchet03 General Efficiency Discussion 11 04-18-2008 02:15 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com