False economy

[cosmick]

You guys trying to go beltless, what you save on fuel you spend on the 110-volt battery charger in your garage. Plus you can't do roadtrips, and if you can't enjoy your car, then why own one? Then again, how can you enjoy anything under 200 HP?
Likewise, you guys trying block heaters, what you save on fuel you spend on 110V in your garage.
If you're using a good synthetic oil, then the block heater doesn't actually help reduce cold start friction.

[redneck]

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You guys trying to go beltless, what you save on fuel you spend on the 110-volt battery charger in your garage.

Wrong...

Plus you can't do roadtrips,

Belt can be re-installed for trips...

and if you can't enjoy your car, then why own one?

Really...

Then again, how can you enjoy anything under 200 HP?

The counter argument is... How can you enjoy anything over 200hp without breaking laws and or endangering others...???

Likewise, you guys trying block heaters, what you save on fuel you spend on 110V in your garage.

Wrong...

If you're using a good synthetic oil, then the block heater doesn't actually help reduce cold start friction.

False... A block heater among other things, allows a engine to reach normal operating temp faster. Thus reducing wear within the engine.



Electricity is very cheap per kilowatt hour as compared to petroleum.

Charging a battery or using a block heater uses less than 10 cents per day.





>

[UltArc]

I enjoy my 300+ HP car and my 60 HP cars. Actually, although I prefer the former, the later has many perks over it. I can beat the Insight as hard as I want, and I am still getting 60 MPG.

[mikeyjd]

Originally Posted by redneck

.



Wrong...





Belt can be re-installed for trips...





Really...




The counter argument is... How can you enjoy anything over 200hp without breaking laws and or endangering others...???






Wrong...






False... A block heater among other things, allows a engine to reach normal operating temp faster. Thus reducing wear within the engine.



Electricity is very cheap per kilowatt hour as compared to petroleum.

Charging a battery or using a block heater uses less than 10 cents per day.





>

owned

[2000mc]

Originally Posted by redneck

.
Electricity is very cheap per kilowatt hour as compared to petroleum.

Charging a battery or using a block heater uses less than 10 cents per day.
>

I think my knee jerk reaction was to agree with redneck, but then I was thinking that block heaters were close to even money. If a gallon of gas is worth 33.7kwh, and avg cost per kWh in the U.S. is $0.12, then it's like paying $4.04 for a gallon of electricity. So I figured the savings were in how inefficiently cars turn gas into electricity, but I don't know what the numbers are for that. can anyone fill in on the rest of the math?

[oil pan 4]

Who works on their own vehicles, lawn tractor, ATV and such and does not already own some kind of battery charger?

Few people have been brave enough to completely remove the alternator, those that have made it pretty clear their vehicle is the dedicated short trip commuter vehicle.

My VW has about a 150hp engine and can do 120mph no problem. I do not push it faster than 120mph because it only has H speed rated tires.
200hp+ would just be a waste.

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by cosmick

You guys trying to go beltless, what you save on fuel you spend on the 110-volt battery charger in your garage. Plus you can't do roadtrips, and if you can't enjoy your car, then why own one? Then again, how can you enjoy anything under 200 HP?
Likewise, you guys trying block heaters, what you save on fuel you spend on 110V in your garage.
If you're using a good synthetic oil, then the block heater doesn't actually help reduce cold start friction.

Oh, where to start?

"if you can't enjoy your car, then why own one?": Cars are a means of transportation, and that is the reason to own one. Everything else we attach to them is human stupidity stemming from our anthropomorphizing inanimate objects, including the very idea that a car must be "enjoyed". If you can't enjoy your toilet, why own one?

"Then again, how can you enjoy anything under 200 HP?" Because the rest of us don't labor under the erroneous assumption that only the things we find enjoyable are possible to be enjoyed, that's how.

"If you're using a good synthetic oil, then the block heater doesn't actually help reduce cold start friction." The point of a block heater is not to reduce cold-start friction. The point of the block heater is to get the engine close to operating temperature before you turn it on, so it isn't wasting fuel warming itself up.

Signed,
The person who enjoys his 134-hp Prius much more than the 450-hp Viper or 505-hp Ram SRT-10 he used to own

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by 2000mc

I think my knee jerk reaction was to agree with redneck, but then I was thinking that block heaters were close to even money. If a gallon of gas is worth 33.7kwh, and avg cost per kWh in the U.S. is $0.12, then it's like paying $4.04 for a gallon of electricity. So I figured the savings were in how inefficiently cars turn gas into electricity, but I don't know what the numbers are for that. can anyone fill in on the rest of the math?

Some where on dieselplace.com I spelled it out pretty clearly.
As long as you don't leave your block heater plugged in all the time it will save you money. If you are on call or something to that effect and leave your block heater plugged in all the time it will cost more, but will save you time defrosting or warming up your car during the winter.
Being able to schedule your block heater use somewhat during winter to help deice your car it can cost you about half as much as burning fuel to warm the engine or deice it so you don't crash into things or run over people.
Then if you can avoid crashing into things or running people over just 1 time its totally worth it all.

Coolant heater for impatient people - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums
(this isn't the post where I go into great detail about electrical cost versus buring diesel to warm the engine, but gives you an idea)

[Frank Lee]

Getting caught at 100+mph in my State is a felony. My danged Tempo is capable of 100+. I have enough trouble in my life without adding felonies to it. Not fun.

[RedDevil]

A gallon of gas may deliver 33.7 kWh worth of energy, but most of that is transferred to heat and goes out of the tailpipe. More heat is lost through the radiator.
So only about 8 kWh is available to power the alternator belt - assuming 75% efficiency in that; only 6 kWh of electricity can be had from that gallon.

If you remove the belt and obtain 6 kWh worth of electricity (over time, at 200/300 W per hour) to power the 12V system from the battery and you lose 50% in charging that, you'd still need just 12 kWh from the mains.
That's a gallon saved for, what's your rate, a dollar and a half at 12.5 cents per kWh?
Well worth it!