Feds say all motorcycle riders should be required to wear helmets

[autoteach]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

Don't forget about any increase in delays, time out of work, and probably the largest, lost GDP due to deaths that could have been avoided. That's the biggest reason (IMO) why most first world countries and even some second/few third world ones have some form of healthcare available to people who couldn't get it otherwise at little to no cost. Outside of sympathy cards and funerals, dead people don't contribute much to an economy, and dead helmetless motorcyclists are certainly part of that group.

GREAT, turns out we have a slight downturn in the economy and a fairly large unemployment rate

[NachtRitter]

Well, keep in mind that statistics are "the past" (what has actually happened) while odds are "the future" (what might happen); in some cases (like traffic accidents and deaths) the odds are based on statistics while in other cases (such as the lottery) the odds are pre-set.

With a lottery, it is (supposed to be) totally random who wins, and prior results have no impact on future results.

The odds of being in a fatal accident is more like the odds of getting cancer. There are things one can do to improve the odds (wear seat belt / helmet, stay off cell phone, keep the vehicle maintained, etc, etc) but despite doing all that folks still die in accidents.

How would one assign odds to an individual? I have no idea. Common sense says that if you live in an area that has less traffic, wear your seat belt, and have many years of driving experience, your odds of surviving improve. But nevertheless some freak accident can put you in the morgue even if previous stats never hinted at that freak combination ever happening. Then you would become a statistic upon which future odds could be based...

(Not implying that's what I would want to happen... just that prior nationwide statistics aren't necessarily a good predictor of what might happen to individuals)

Edit: Wanted to add link to the FARS system, which allows you to slice & dice the fatality data many different ways... might be a way to better estimate odds according to your lifestyle and location: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx. Unfortunately no similar system exists for accidents in general, apparently because of the different reporting approaches by state. Would be interesting to look at severity of injuries, including subsequent deaths in the hospital (which I don't believe count in the NHTSA fatality rate) similar to the way the report I linked above does (but for all states and all vehicle types).

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

It's a line that needs to be drawn in the sand, as a total free-for-all is bad as is the opposite.

America is not drifting towards anarchism; to the contrary, it is drifting or slowly being propagandized towards accepting Nanny State mentality - which is a form of authoritarianism. The essence of it is that you shouldn't be allowed to make your own decisions and accept the consequences of your own behavior. It is cultivated dependency, and those who wield power and influence will benefit from promoting it. Big Brother is here to make sure you stay in line and that you don't hurt yourself. Big Brother is your protector, your guardian, your overseer, your... master. Big Brother cares so much about you. What could be bad about that?

Think of it as 1984.1. An updated version of the original program. User friendly. Can't do without it. Vote for it today.

(I suspect some here might never have read Orwell's 1984 <sigh>)

"Those who are willing to trade freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security." (B. Franklin)

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by ShadeTreeMech

If humans as a species didn't always demonstrate foolish self destructive behavior, these laws wouldn't have been made.

Humans (as a species, or not) do not "always demonstrate foolish self destructive behavior". Some might. But most don't.

Do you really think that making more Nanny State laws will eradicate "foolish self destructive behavior"?

Keep dreaming...

[redyaris]

Originally Posted by Thymeclock

America is not drifting towards anarchism; to the contrary, it is drifting or slowly being propagandized towards accepting Nanny State mentality - which is a form of authoritarianism. The essence of it is that you shouldn't be allowed to make your own decisions and accept the consequences of your own behavior. It is cultivated dependency, and those who wield power and influence will benefit from promoting it. Big Brother is here to make sure you stay in line and that you don't hurt yourself. Big Brother is your protector, your guardian, your overseer, your... master. Big Brother cares so much about you. What could be bad about that?

Think of it as 1984.1. An updated version of the original program. User friendly. Can't do without it. Vote for it today.

(I suspect some here might never have read Orwell's 1984 <sigh>)

"Those who are willing to trade freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security." (B. Franklin)

I just say Anarchism riding by on his motorcycle without a helmit and behind him on the bike was his girl friend Nannystate who was wearing one. Anarchism lost control of the bike and they hit a Authoritarianism tree who do you think servived?

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by redyaris

I just say Anarchism riding by on his motorcycle without a helmit and behind him on the bike was his girl friend Nannystate who was wearing one. Anarchism lost control of the bike and they hit a Authoritarianism tree who do you think servived?

And the Class Clown award for ridicule goes to...

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Just like for those "death trap" cars, here's some #s for bikes:

'07: 38.01 motorcycle fatalities per 100,000,000 miles, or 1 per 2,630,887 miles...

Unlike cages @14,000 miles/year, Kelly Blue Book says bikes accumilate 3000-6000 miles/year; NHTSA says 2411 for '00. Hmmm... well in the absence of better data I'll use the average 2411+3000+6000/3=3803... OK, 4000 miles/year, which is quite a bit more than I average.

2,630,887 miles/4000 miles per year = 658 years.

Bikes are about 10x worse than cages per mile (Car odds were 6,300 years of driving before getting nailed)

And yet, 658 years is how many lifetimes???

And that is why I oppose this proposed mandate as well. As always, wearing a helmet and other gear is always an option for those that feel the need.

I presented the raw data unfiltered to y'all as soon as I found it. Then I did what I prefer to do to make it relevant to me. Don't say I never gave ya nothing.

Oh, and who survived? Neither. Anarchy piled into a tree on purpose to shut her up.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by autoteach

GREAT, turns out we have a slight downturn in the economy and a fairly large unemployment rate

Who knows, maybe one of those dead riders could have helped us move out of the economy. Implying that it won't hurt the economy much because we already have high unemployment seems like another version of the broken window fallacy.

[Frank Lee]

Those .0017% biker guys must be waaaaay more productive than they look!

[dcb]

re: broken windows. Everything is interrelated to some degree.

I.E. you can't make the world a safer place without helping to breed idiots, and those can be very expensive in the long run.