Fighting for vehicle owners’ rights to inspect the code that runs their vehicles

[Focus-Ak]

See: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/0...y-own-your-car

"EFF [Electronic Frontier Foundation] is fighting for vehicle owners’ rights to inspect the code that runs their vehicles and to repair and modify their vehicles, or have a mechanic of their choice do the work. At the moment, the anti-circumvention prohibition in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act arguably restricts vehicle inspection, repair, and modification. If EFF is successful then vehicle owners will be free to inspect and tinker, as long as they don’t run afoul of other regulations, such as those governing vehicle emissions, safety, or copyright law."

"You can support EFF's exemption requests by adding your name to the petition we'll submit in the rulemaking. https://act.eff.org/action/fight-for...epair-your-car

"Most of the automakers operating in the US filed opposition comments through trade associations, along with a couple of other vehicle manufacturers. They warn that owners with the freedom to inspect and modify code will be capable of violating a wide range of laws and harming themselves and others. They say you shouldn’t be allowed to repair your own car because you might not do it right. They say you shouldn’t be allowed to modify the code in your car because you might defraud a used car purchaser by changing the mileage. They say no one should be allowed to even look at the code without the manufacturer’s permission because letting the public learn how cars work could help malicious hackers, “third-party software developers” (the horror!), and competitors."

... (See link at top for the rest of the article)

[redpoint5]

Very interesting topic. I see very good points on both sides of the issue. My guess is that owners will not gain the right to view/modify vehicle code since it allows amateurs to modify things that affect safety and the environment instead of entrusting it to the professional engineers.

I know I would reprogram my car for fuel efficiency; environmental considerations aside. The constant rich/lean dance that the computer does to the fuel map is probably good for emissions, but not so good for fuel economy. I'd also add a power setting that could be activated by a switch.

[oil pan 4]

You can always rip out all the proprietary crap and install something like a megasquirt system.
You can run what ever sensors you want and edit your own code. Say you want faster response IAT GM sensor or say you need a bigger MAF but want to go with a cheaper Asian or Domestic MAF for your euro import. You can do that.

[Fat Charlie]

What's the problem?

Chrysler DRB III Diagnostic Dealer Scan Tool Scope Module DRB3 Kit Smart CARD2 | eBay
Used, “Good shape.” Buy It Now $3,399.

Tired of sending your customers to the dealership? We have something that should remedy this.

Being offered is a DRB III you wont find everywhere else. This tool is for the older Chryslers out there. The Unit is in very good shape, the protective cover is worn but its done its job. Has the latest software on the Smart Card2 . Also this has the optional scope/pep module installed.....and the kit is included. Has a brand new main cable from SPX not a chinese copy off ebay.

You'll be proud to have this tool in your toolbox. This tool would run you $6500+ or more if you had to buy it new and that doesnt include all the extras so save some here...

For the newer models, there's...
Chrysler Witech MICROPOD2 Licensed for Aftermarket with Tech Authority | eBay
New, Buy It Now $3,294.25. Laptop not included.

You want it to continue working?
1 Year Tech Authority Programming 1 Year of Witech Tool Licensing | eBay
Buy It Now $1,445.25.

So feel free: no one's actually stopping you from unlocking all that wonderful horsepower. It may not make good business sense for Joe Bob's garage to spend all that money just to go above and beyond for one car lineup, but it's easy enough to do.

Security issues (this equipment + PIN codes can program keys) exist even before the legal (emissions and mpg) and warranty issues come into play, but those aren't actually preventing anyone from getting the stuff from ebay and getting the PIN code for a car they actually own from a dealer.

But from a maintenance and liability perspective, no, they just don't want the headaches: at least a riced out Civic shows physical evidence of not being completely stock. Every corporate legal department dreads facing an unintended acceleration lawsuit or something else along those lines with their logo all over the news alongside pictures of dead children and whatnot, believing their engineers who say that the sortware they wrote couldn't have done that but not being able to prove it because the PCM melted in the fire.

So they're not going to make it easy, but you already can do it. If you can take your car to a tuner shop, it follows that you can DIY. Cheap and easy? Not so much.

[Hersbird]

I think it's up to the car makers to make it available if they want, and perfectly ok for the customer to hack and then modify it if they want. Sort of like a smart phone. Some car makers are great about working with the aftermarket and the customer to open up the computer. Ford does this with the Mustang, I think they release the computer and all the programming before the car even comes out. Chrysler on the other hand keeps everything as difficult as possible. Their stuff still gets opened sooner or later but it takes extra time and effort.
I like the current setup, it's not illegal to keep it proprietary but once the car is sold it is no longer the property of the manufacturer and can then be hacked and modified by the owner. The government can continue to check that they are within pollution and safety laws but modifications shouldn't automatically be deemed non-compliant.

[Xist]

Why can't we edit Windows source code?

[Fat Charlie]

Because they can't, either.

[Chrysler kid]

HPTuners.com >> Performance At Your Fingertips.

My camaro has all the custom fuel and setting that I want, or that are restricted to the ecu's maximum available memory. My 98 has about 258mb of memory available to be added before you fry the ecu. The 99+ models are 750mb free space and are able to radically change tunes

[spacemanspif]

Originally Posted by Chrysler kid

HPTuners.com >> Performance At Your Fingertips.

My camaro has all the custom fuel and setting that I want, or that are restricted to the ecu's maximum available memory. My 98 has about 258mb of memory available to be added before you fry the ecu. The 99+ models are 750mb free space and are able to radically change tunes

I just picked up a used unit with 6 GM credits and a computer for $350 this weekend off craigslist to play with my Monte. HPT is always looking for new vehicles to add to the "supported list" and I hope to discuss with them about getting access to my Focus so I tweak for economy. The tune on my Monte right now has lean cruise disabled...wonder why I can only get 18mpg highway in the car

Some companies are open about tuning; others very tight-lipped. Seems like GM wanted to allow tuners in, whereas Toyota encrypted the crap out of their computers. Friends with turbo Scions all had to use piggy back computers or for stand-alone units because the 'Yota comp. was apparently one tough nut to crack...

[nemesis]

My bike's and my truck's factory ecus have been replaced with megasquirt stand alone ecus a while ago, it gives you control over anything you could imagine if you know what's going on. If you don't, it's very easy to make the engine run poorly and damage it especially if it has some kind of forced induction. If I was going to produce and warranty and engine I wouldn't be ok with others to modify engines tune just by anybody. I go to a local track, and majority of racers there don't know what's going on or have any clue, they modify engines internally and then upload useless maps that most of the time make the bike run worse. For some reason they pay big money to build their engines, but end up skipping on the ecu adjustment or do it themselves.

From my experience factory ecu's are very good, they provide very good cold start, part throttle, good power and good mpg for just about anybody and provide a pretty good safety margin. Very few could benefit with modifying it, most wouldn't.