Fighting for vehicle owners’ rights to inspect the code that runs their vehicles

[Hersbird]

I disagree the factory tunes are good. Any economy they tunes for is to perform well in the EPA cycle. Then they tune in a way magazine testers will like. Then they tune for low emissions over better economy.
Just think of the gains that could be had if they did an eco mode that never entered open loop on 100% throttle or downshifted on heavy throttle and shifted early keeping the motor in BSFC better. Add cylinder deactivation to the above and locked it in rather then disengaging it at the slightest hint of throttle.
I do think they need driver selected modes so if you need a power mode you could select it, along with a normal in between mode.

[freebeard]

Help Defend Our Right to Be From Massachusetts??? - EVTV Motor Verks

It's interesting what Tesla has done in Massachusetts. EVTV is on the case:

https://www.google.com/search?q=evtv+"right+to+repair"

If you can't open the hood, you don't own it.

[Fat Charlie]

Pretty soon resetting your oil change reminder is going to be a dangerous Computer Crime! I'll bet the RIAA's lawyers are already coaching the car companies on this.

[Hersbird]

I'd say the courts and copyright office is treading in favor more that you do own the software and BIOS. You can't reproduce or modify it for profit it but you can modify it for your own use. So jailbreaking a PS3 for yourself is legal, jailbreaking PS3s for sale or when paid to do it by other is illegal. This is something of a change, probably part of a reason why Microsoft is just making windows 10 free. plus it gets impossible to enforce in a world economy where it's perfectly legal somewhere else to modify the program and resell it.
I feel like with more and more openness, power, and ease in computer programming, the automakers are picking a poor fight in this area, just like the movie and music industry is wasting their time with copyright battles. The only thing they prevent is lawful owners the ease to do things they lawfully are allowed to do and thus piss off the paying customers.

[spacemanspif]

Little update on my previous post. I have emailed back and forth with HPTuners and it doesn't seem like they care to do the work needed to support the Duratec 2.0 operating system for the older Foci. Guess they are just keeping with the brand new models and not going for older cars.

It's a tough spot to be in for the auto industry in America. They need to tune a car for the "average" driver that will pass government regulations and run reliably for a long service life. Most people on the road have no business playing with the car's computer and many others who do want to play would also want their car fixed under warranty when they melt a piston becuase of their bad tune. Then there is the 0.0001% of people who want to custom tune, take responsibility for their actions and know what they are doing who would actually benefit from availability the the car's computer tune; but those people are probably already using other stand alone products like mega squirt.

[freebeard]

The service parts industry represents sales volume approximating new cars sales (because there're more of them); and the junkyards are filling up with parts that use CANbus. But the new car industry doesn't document the codes (excepting Tesla in Massachusetts) so out-of-warranty cars are becoming disposable items, and you won't be able to roll your own.

The aftermarket will shrink to tires and shiny wheels. And bumper stickers.

[firehawk618]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

You can always rip out all the proprietary crap and install something like a megasquirt system.
You can run what ever sensors you want and edit your own code. Say you want faster response IAT GM sensor or say you need a bigger MAF but want to go with a cheaper Asian or Domestic MAF for your euro import. You can do that.

And you'll no longer be OBDii compliant which makes you technically emissions illegal. *assuming it's 1996 or newer*

[Madact]

Cross link to www.autoblog.com (via slashdot): Automakers to gearheads: Stop repairing cars

Probably nothing new to most people here, but it's a good round-up of the various sides of the issue.

FWIW I'm all for user mods, but I'm also in favour of emissions testing - which gets hard when the user can easily implement something like "tap the brakes twice before cranking the engine => dirty high performance mode".

Not sure how this is best resolved, but one way would be to have a few EPA (or equivalent) approved fuel maps and ECU firmware mods publicly available, with modders having to pay a fee in the order of a few hundred dollars to get the modified code reviewed and cryptographicly signed. The obvious downsides of this idea are
(a) It's highly unlikely the OEMs would go for it, I suspect they'd be as obstructionist about it as they could get away with.
(b) Properly vetting modified code would is non-trivial to say the least - particularly when you have mods like cylinder deactivation and you're worried about being sued by an SUV owner whose engine wouldn't start in the middle of a frozen wilderness.
(c) It would be way too easy for such a scheme to be arbitrarily shut down with no notice (much like the ability to run Linux on PS3s...).

[user removed]

Message from an old mechanic to the manufacturers. Most of the people who came to me would have probably sold the car before they brought them back to your dealership.

Obviously from YOUR perspective, YOU would just love to make that impossible even thought your dealer network is INCAPABLE of repairing the cars they sell. That's why I was asked to try to fix it after it went to two different dealerships, who, after spending hundreds of dollars that did nothing to address the described symptoms, drove the unfortunate customer to me as last resort, even with all of the service bulletin recommendations that address your poor initial design.

But then I'm just a dumb old grease monkey. Coincidentally one of your own who was the person they brought all of their squeaks, rattles and other defects, to repair according to YOUR time allowances, when I worked for you.

You long ago forgot how to fix my current car, probably haven't touched one in at least 15 years.

regards
mech

[oil pan 4]

We Can't Let John Deere Destroy the Very Idea of Ownership | WIRED

GM, Ford, And Others Want to Make Working on Your Own Car Illegal - Boldride.com

Pretty much sums up why I will never buy a new vehicle from our current time period.

Originally Posted by Madact

(c) It would be way too easy for such a scheme to be arbitrarily shut down with no notice (much like the ability to run Linux on PS3s...).

Exactly why the new engine I am building for my Camaro is non-fuel injected.
I was going to go with a fuel injected 5.3L aluminum truck block with the capability to run cylinder deactivation but no, the thought police ruined that idea.