Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Closed Thread  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-13-2009, 10:18 AM   #41 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: oh
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
" CAFE " Dual-fuel vehicles, such as E85 capable models, are taken as the average of this alternative fuel rating and its gasoline rate. Thus a dual-fuel E85 capable vehicle which gets 15 mpg on E-85 and 25 mpg on gasoline would be rated as 20 mpg for CAFE purposes, in spite of the fact that less than one percent of the fuel used in E85 capable vehicles is actually E85.

" CAFE standards is not 100 + mpg for E 85 cars "

I will say high mpg with 400 hp in a V8 engine truck is not what you're looking for when you're pulling the camper or boat down the road 5 to 6 hundred miles on vacation.

" I guess you're right a electric 2 seater 3 wheeler is better."


Last edited by hp2g; 05-13-2009 at 10:35 AM.. Reason: Data
 
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 05-13-2009, 11:08 AM   #42 (permalink)
Master Novice
 
elhigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SE USA - East Tennessee
Posts: 2,314

Josie - '87 Toyota Pickup
90 day: 40.02 mpg (US)

Felicia - '09 Toyota Prius Base
90 day: 49.62 mpg (US)
Thanks: 427
Thanked 616 Times in 450 Posts
Putting your voodoo math to the side, how many miles does your vehicle get per BTU in the tank? Is that significantly better than an unmodified Mustang? Comparing BTUs on the flexfuel Mustang to BTUs on a stocker from some McDonald's parking lot, apples to apples.

Don't start parcing out content percentages, just come straight out and tell us: on a fillup of X gallons of liquid fuel, how many miles? Just declare without any qualifications, a full tank of (fuel) yields _______miles.

I'm assuming that if I were to take your car, put in 3 gallons of 100% gasoline, it would not go 300 miles. I also don't believe that it would cover the same 300 miles on E85. Can you refute these assumptions without turning to your obfuscatory math and qualifying statements?
__________________




Lead or follow. Either is fine.
 
Old 05-13-2009, 11:29 AM   #43 (permalink)
Dartmouth 2010
 
SVOboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hanover, NH
Posts: 6,447

Vegan Powa! - '91 Honda CRX DX
Team Honda
90 day: 66.52 mpg (US)
Thanks: 92
Thanked 122 Times in 90 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SVOboy Send a message via MSN to SVOboy Send a message via Yahoo to SVOboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by hp2g View Post
" CAFE " Dual-fuel vehicles, such as E85 capable models, are taken as the average of this alternative fuel rating and its gasoline rate. Thus a dual-fuel E85 capable vehicle which gets 15 mpg on E-85 and 25 mpg on gasoline would be rated as 20 mpg for CAFE purposes, in spite of the fact that less than one percent of the fuel used in E85 capable vehicles is actually E85.

" CAFE standards is not 100 + mpg for E 85 cars "

I will say high mpg with 400 hp in a V8 engine truck is not what you're looking for when you're pulling the camper or boat down the road 5 to 6 hundred miles on vacation.

" I guess you're right a electric 2 seater 3 wheeler is better."
Is spamming this site really how you plan to market your car?
 
Old 05-13-2009, 12:07 PM   #44 (permalink)
Mechanical Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 190

The Truck - '02 Dodge Ram 1500 SLT Sport
90 day: 13.32 mpg (US)

The Van 2 - '06 Honda Odyssey EX
90 day: 20.56 mpg (US)

GoKart - '14 Hyundai Elantra GT base 6MT
90 day: 32.04 mpg (US)

Godzilla - '21 Ford F350 XL
90 day: 8.69 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
I must admit I was hoping that the hp2g Mustang might have proven to have had more up its sleeve that first appeared. "Cautiously optimistic" you could say. The more skeptical engineering side of me finally took over and I calculated it out.

Everyone's right; his 110 mpg is pure BS using only the gasoline portion of the gallon of E85 to calculate mileage. Hence the apparent failure to satisfy the X-prize requirements.

I double-checked my calculations: using 25.2 MJ/L as the energy value of E85 and the published data of Cd 0.42, A=22 ft^2, and mass 3250 lb published on the hp2g website, comping him an optimistic Crr of .006 for tires the best he could hope for (i.e. efficiency=100%) to overcome rolling and aerodynamic friction at a steady 55 mph is 149 mpg.

To achieve 110mpg at a steady 55mph he would have to exceed 84% thermal efficiency (including motor friction, drive line friction, and combustion efficiency). This is simply not possible. The maximum theoretical Otto cycle efficiency is only 64% for a very high compression ratio of 14:1. An efficient drive line would knock at least another 10% off.

hp2g: I'm glad you've already brought lawyers on board with your "team." I hope they're smart enough to straighten out your claims before you sell a product to someone. I'm sure the FTC will be watching.
__________________
 
Old 05-13-2009, 12:26 PM   #45 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: oh
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I must say Thank You for following the HP2g engine progress.

Attorneys are needed to protect the Intellectual Property ( Patents ). I do have some of the best attorneys in the U.S.A.

Last edited by hp2g; 05-13-2009 at 12:27 PM.. Reason: data
 
Old 05-13-2009, 12:40 PM   #46 (permalink)
LurkoModding Ecker
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Da Desert
Posts: 51

new beetle - '98 Volkswagen Beetle GLS
90 day: 32.98 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hp2g View Post
I must say Thank You for following the HP2g engine progress.

Attorneys are needed to protect the Intellectual Property ( Patents ). I do have some of the best attorneys in the U.S.A.
I applaud you for creating an E85 capable engine, that is a wonderful thing you are doing for the environment. And I am glad that someone who is doing something good for the environment has some of the best attorneys in the U.S.A. because with your incredibly false claims you will need those lawyers to defend you in the ensuing class action law suit filed by the people who paid hard earned money for a 110 mpg vehicle that actually gets 16.5 mpg. But keep up the good work.
__________________

Quote:
When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty but when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -Buckminster Fuller
 
Old 05-13-2009, 12:52 PM   #47 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: oh
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
IP ( Intellectual Property ) attorneys are for IP only.


I wonder if Edison got the same response back when he invented the light bulb or the phonograph?
 
Old 05-13-2009, 01:14 PM   #48 (permalink)
EcoModder Student
 
esoneson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Youngsville, NC
Posts: 117
Thanks: 11
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hp2g View Post
IP ( Intellectual Property ) attorneys are for IP only.


I wonder if Edison got the same response back when he invented the light bulb or the phonograph?
He would have if he claimed the light bulb could play music and the phonograph could light up the room..........but HE didn't.

P.S Does your engine run on snake oil?

Eric
__________________
1995 BMW 318i EV in the making
 
Old 05-13-2009, 01:43 PM   #49 (permalink)
Dartmouth 2010
 
SVOboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hanover, NH
Posts: 6,447

Vegan Powa! - '91 Honda CRX DX
Team Honda
90 day: 66.52 mpg (US)
Thanks: 92
Thanked 122 Times in 90 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SVOboy Send a message via MSN to SVOboy Send a message via Yahoo to SVOboy
Since we have clearly established the claims as deceptive and their numbers complete BS, I feel like we can close the thread.

I will also be deleting their garage entry as it does not represent actual fuel consumed.

 
Closed Thread  Post New Thread


Tags
110mpg, hp2g, revenge, verde

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
free OBD2 software with MPG calc whitewiz Instrumentation 11 12-10-2014 10:53 AM
Project: Rebuilding an '01 Honda Insight as a nonhybrid Fabio Hybrids 158 01-12-2013 11:59 AM
How to get instant fuel consumption from Megasquirt TELVM Instrumentation 11 08-29-2011 02:47 PM
Registering a car based reverse trike in CA Carwhisperer EcoModding Central 58 07-10-2011 07:12 AM
Flashing yellow light skyl4rk EcoModding Central 5 08-01-2010 01:57 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com