First ever hybrid win @ 24h of Le Mans - Audi diesel hybrid

[user removed]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

That's 'cause you live over on the flat side of the country. To be a realistic car hereabouts, you need to be able to climb about 5000 vertical feet of 7% grade, including some acceleration out of hairpin curves. That's quite a bit more than one 0-70. From my experience, it's about twice the Gen 1 Insight's battery pack capacity.

I drove my Insight to an elevation of 3500 feet on a trip to Blacksburg. Grades that slowed the big rigs down to 35 MPH in the truck only lane added for that purpose. Still managed 70.2 MPG on that trip, with the CVT and no lean burn. Maybe your location does not have the topography of the east coast with the piedmont between the mountains and the Atlantic.

Any vehicle is a constant energy drain. If I lived and drove the route you describe then I would own a Toyota Echo, which can climb at BSFC and coast down the negative grades using DFCO if necessary. I drove the same route in my 94 Civic VX and averaged 65 MPG.

No hybrid will help you much in your scenario. Thinking about something for literally hundreds of hours includes all potential scenarios, including yours. Why would you assume otherwise?

What percentage of the general driving population would commute that distance, about 70,000 feet horizontal distance.

5000/7X100 is over 71,000 feet distance. 71,285 to be fairly exact. You are talking about a distance of 13.5 miles.

What percentage of the driving public drives that commute daily. Maybe 1/10 of 1%.

Quoting rediculously low percentages of the driving public is making a point that has no value to those who would build a car for such a limited market.

Even a Nissan Leaf would be hard pressed to make that climb daily. They just made the Pikes Peak Hill climg in a Leaf, barely.

As you posted yourself, it requires twice the battery capability of the first gen Insight. Honda made the choice to keep the vehicle weight low with the small capacity battery. You still can not buy a more efficient car to drive.

regards
Mech

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

What percentage of the driving public drives that commute daily. Maybe 1/10 of 1%

You could likewise argue that only a small fraction of commuters need the ability to go from 0 to 70, as most are stuck in stop & go traffic :-)

FTM, why should commuting be the standard by which cars are judged?

5000/7X100 is over 71,000 feet distance. 71,285 to be fairly exact. You are talking about a distance of 13.5 miles.

Yeah, that's about right. Here's one such road that I drive frequently: Nevada State Route 431 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It's about 13 miles from base (on the Reno side) to summit, and just about 4500 ft elevation gain. Quite a few people do commute on that road, too.

[lowglider]

Got to love it how efficiency wins the game. A diesel AND a hybrid in one - winning one of the most prestigious awards in racing. Who would have ever thought it possible even like 10 years ago?
I love how they`ve chosen to go for the closed cockpit this time, I think it`s better for both the driver and the aerodynamics..

[UFO]

Always thought diesel was a good match for a hybrid. Sure wish VW would bring more efficient diesels to the US, even just the Polo, but the 1L would be awesome.

[JasonG]

A diesel hybrid is definitely a win-win situation.
the VW 4motion/Audi Quattro just begs for this.
Drop the Polo engine in the Golf/Jetta and add an electric to the rear.
They've proven it here on the track, lets see one available to the retail market.

[02ws6]

Anyone watch this last weekend??

I just thought the ecomodding community might be interested since the amount of hybrids and futuristic concepts out there was amazing..

Toyota had an awesome car as well as Audi but the one I was super interested in was the Nissan..

The deltawing seems like a very cool concept.. Less than 1000lbs, only 300hp, 10.6 gallon tank and an obscure design...

Here's an article.

deltawing - News - NISSAN DELTAWING THRILLS LE MANS FANS DESPITE EARLY FINISH


Will post more on the Toyotas since I really think their hybrids could've gave Audi a run for their money this year if not for mechanical issues and one big crash and what not...

One awesome thing to all this is that eventually this awesome technology trickles down into the cars you can buy off the showroom floor..

[MetroMPG]

02ws6 - I merged your post with this existing discussion about the Le Mans race & the cars.

Definitely too bad about the Nissan - a laudable approach for reducing fuel & tire consumption!

[wdb]

The Deltawing is definitely the one to watch. Half the power, half the downforce, half the fuel consumption, same performance. That's real progress in anyone's book. I salute the LeMans organizers for allowing the car to run. Ironically it was knocked out by one of the hybrid Toyotas!

The hybrid cars won due the rules being stacked in their favor far more than any kind of superiority in design or efficiency.

Last year (I think) F1 cars were allowed to choose between having a KERS system + its 44lbs additional weight + its additional complexity, or not having it and saving the weight/complexity. The KERS cars kicked butt on the straights and so they all have it now.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by wdb

The hybrid cars won due the rules being stacked in their favor far more than any kind of superiority in design or efficiency.

Really? The rules certainly seem to favor the Audi diesels, but the strong renegerative braking capability of the hybrid cars and the very high power to weight ratio that comes with those systems is a force to be reckoned with.

[user removed]

[QUOTE=jamesqf;313262]You could likewise argue that only a small fraction of commuters need the ability to go from 0 to 70, as most are stuck in stop & go traffic :-)

FTM, why should commuting be the standard by which cars are judged?

Manufacturers use market data to make decisions about what to offer. The 0-70 figure reflects a balance of capacity and dead weight. That's the same decision Honda made with the 1st gen Insight. Based on the fuel economy numbers produced by them even 6 years after production stopped, compared to everything made from 2006 to the new 2013 models, the Insight is still number 1.

0-70 is the amount of speed you can achieve legally in the US, with few exceptions. If you want more increase the storage, reduce it for less. Climbing mountainous areas actually allows for better efficiency than flat land constant speed driving. The same storage capacity would allow you to travel close to 1 mile on stored energy alone at speeds of 50 MPH average.

I wonder what the Audi system would be capable of in acceleration and constant speed distance travelled in a 2500 pound sedan.

regards
Mech