Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-20-2019, 12:09 AM   #101 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 3,601

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 325
Thanked 2,147 Times in 1,454 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
I'm in agreement about nuclear. I haven't looked closely into why they're getting rid of Vermont Yankee, but I hope it wasn't just anti-nuclear sentiment.
Vermont Yankee was 42 years old and leaking radioactive material into the ground water when it was closed in 2014. It will cost $1.24 billion dollars to decommission. The utility only has about 1/2 that amount in their decommissioning trust fund so I expect in a few decades the public will get stuck with the bill.

https://www.reformer.com/stories/ver...-to-nrc,322448

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
aerohead (02-20-2019)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 02-20-2019, 01:06 AM   #102 (permalink)
Growin a stash
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 818
Thanks: 417
Thanked 309 Times in 232 Posts
Nuclear is a great, clean source of energy but the cost of ensuring safety in the long term (to a high degree of probability) is very high. Even with lots of precautions, you can't protect against every freak occurrence. Fukushima, Three Mile Island, etc are great examples of that. I could name more. Russia had at least one scary incident that's not well-known (not Chernobyl). There's a good reason why there aren't many new nuclear plants.

I support more natural gas and more renewables, hopefully leaning more toward renewables as time goes on
__________________


2024 Chevy Bolt

Previous:
2015 Nissan Leaf S, 164 mpge
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2019, 01:56 AM   #103 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,819

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - CBR600 - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - Dodge/Cummins - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)

Model Y - '24 Tesla Y LR AWD

Pacifica Hybrid - '21 Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid
90 day: 43.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,327
Thanked 4,480 Times in 3,445 Posts
That explanation leaves out a lot of relevant information, such as the radioactive material was tritium (heavy hydrogen) which is a material used in things such as wrist watches and gun sights. The leak from steam pipes was repaired a month after discovering the problem, and no water sources that humans interact with were contaminated.

The 2 major factors for decommissioning the plant were:

1. Abundant natural gas undercutting the price of nuclear power
2. Anti-nuclear lobbying from anti-environmentalists

Age had little to do with it. The facility was already built, so there were no ongoing construction costs to contend with. Nuclear plants can conceivably operate for 100 years.

65% of the decommissioning costs are "costs associated with terminating the NRC operating license ($817 million)", whatever that means.

Finally, Vermont is still using nuclear power, only buying it from New Hampshire.

Vermont is the 8th most expensive state for electricity.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
wdb (02-23-2019)
Old 02-20-2019, 04:02 PM   #104 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 811 Times in 594 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vman455 View Post
The UCS has a nice calculator on their site that can display the information for specific vehicles in your zip code. Where I live, I can't do better in any electric car than I do in my current hybrid for now.
From that site, the average full EV produces 108 g/mile of CO2. A little search comes up with 130 g/mile for the Insight, given the "average driver" of the test cycle. I can count on doing at least 10% better, maybe more, which I'm not sure would be the case with an EV. So at best a marginal improvement.

And that's not even counting the purchase cost* of even a used EV, or the environmental cost of replacing a servicable and reasonably efficient hybrid.

*Dollars I could otherwise use to improve my home's energy efficiency, or make other changes.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jamesqf For This Useful Post:
aerohead (02-20-2019)
Old 02-20-2019, 04:30 PM   #105 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,318
Thanks: 24,442
Thanked 7,386 Times in 4,783 Posts
g/mile

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
From that site, the average full EV produces 108 g/mile of CO2. A little search comes up with 130 g/mile for the Insight, given the "average driver" of the test cycle. I can count on doing at least 10% better, maybe more, which I'm not sure would be the case with an EV. So at best a marginal improvement.

And that's not even counting the purchase cost* of even a used EV, or the environmental cost of replacing a servicable and reasonably efficient hybrid.

*Dollars I could otherwise use to improve my home's energy efficiency, or make other changes.
So there's zero future for renewables in your state?
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2019, 07:30 PM   #106 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Vman455's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Urbana, IL
Posts: 1,939

Pope Pious the Prius - '13 Toyota Prius Two
Team Toyota
SUV
90 day: 51.62 mpg (US)

Tycho the Truck - '91 Toyota Pickup DLX 4WD
90 day: 22.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 199
Thanked 1,806 Times in 942 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
So there's zero future for renewables in your state?
The answer to that question depends heavily on what timescale you assume vs. the average lifetime of a vehicle. Even then, it's a rosy prediction to say a state like Illinois will have zero-carbon electricity production by even 2039 (in fact, I'll put money on that not happening, and not even getting close).

Right now, you only need a gasser to do better than ~39 mpg to have a lower carbon footprint than an EV here. If I were to go out and buy a Niro EV right now, and expect it to last 15-20 years, how much cleaner will it be at the end of that lifespan? Ideally, completely clean. Realistically, probably not much better than it is now. Plus, its overall cleanliness compared to the gas car will have to take into account carbon dioxide emissions over the life of the vehicle, which will start out worse for the EV and have to be offset by future gains.
__________________
UIUC Aerospace Engineering
www.amateuraerodynamics.com
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Vman455 For This Useful Post:
TexasCotton (02-21-2019)
Old 02-21-2019, 12:14 AM   #107 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 3,601

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 325
Thanked 2,147 Times in 1,454 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
That explanation leaves out a lot of relevant information, such as the radioactive material was tritium (heavy hydrogen) which is a material used in things such as wrist watches and gun sights. The leak from steam pipes was repaired a month after discovering the problem, and no water sources that humans interact with were contaminated.[

The 2 major factors for decommissioning the plant were:

1. Abundant natural gas undercutting the price of nuclear power
2. Anti-nuclear lobbying from anti-environmentalists

Age had little to do with it. The facility was already built, so there were no ongoing construction costs to contend with. Nuclear plants can conceivably operate for 100 years.

65% of the decommissioning costs are "costs associated with terminating the NRC operating license ($817 million)", whatever that means.

Finally, Vermont is still using nuclear power, only buying it from New Hampshire.

Vermont is the 8th most expensive state for electricity.
There were multiple tritium leaks as well as cesium-137. No doubt anti-nuclear sentiment was a factor. I also find that pretty reasonable when the local nuclear plant keeps leaking radioactive materials.

Personally I think age had a lot to do with it. Sure you can keep a plant going almost indefinitely but steel rusts and concrete breaks down. The older a plant is the more work is needed to keep it running safely. There comes a point where it doesn't make economic sense to keep patching the pipes and plugging the leaks.

There is a reason it was given a 40 year operating license when it was opened.

I'm not against nuclear power but I don't see how they can compete economically today given the huge cost to build a nuclear plant and then decommission it at the end of life.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
samwichse (02-21-2019)
Old 02-21-2019, 12:20 AM   #108 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 12,923
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,697 Times in 1,515 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
There were multiple tritium leaks as well as cesium-137.
I guess you're referring to the Goiânia incident when you mention cesium-137 leaks. Nuclear waste management is still precarious here in Brazil, and recently a similar incident was on its way to happen but this time it was avoided just in time...
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2019, 12:35 AM   #109 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 3,601

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 325
Thanked 2,147 Times in 1,454 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
I guess you're referring to the Goiânia incident when you mention cesium-137 leaks. Nuclear waste management is still precarious here in Brazil, and recently a similar incident was on its way to happen but this time it was avoided just in time...
I was specifically talking about a cesium-137 leak at the Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant before it was shut down.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2019, 03:22 AM   #110 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,268

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 273
Thanked 3,570 Times in 2,834 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Vermont Yankee was 42 years old and leaking radioactive material into the ground water when it was closed in 2014. It will cost $1.24 billion dollars to decommission. The utility only has about 1/2 that amount in their decommissioning trust fund so I expect in a few decades the public will get stuck with the bill.

https://www.reformer.com/stories/ver...-to-nrc,322448
Yeah and the best part is the useful idiots voters voted to close it down.
Now they can pay for twice. Once for more expensive power and twice to clean it up. That's what they voted for so obvious they can clean it up. What did they think the nuclear fiery was going to come by wave a magic wand and make it go away?

__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com