FORD F-150 EV announced

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

Details.

But it IS more FUEL efficient, ie: more miles per gallon

Yep. Just need to get those battery costs and weight down a bit more!

[redpoint5]

I think US law and VW have both all but killed diesels here. They will be relegated to large trucks.

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by Ecky

I'm a big proponent of EVs, so don't get me wrong, but this point always seems disingenuous to me. Sure, maybe you have 80-90% energy-to-the-road in an EV. And maybe you've even accounted for losses in charging, and even losses in transmission. But, if your electricity is from fossil fuels, you do not have 3x the BSFC - those losses are already built into the costs of the electricity. On top of that, even if you do have clean sources, electricity is often 2-3x more expensive per kwh than gasoline. Cost per mile is better but not as much better as many make it out to be over a very efficient diesel or hybrid.

The Union of Concerned Scientists has a source-to-wheel study of EV's vs ICE cars, and the average is EV's get about 80MPGe+, and they get cleaner and cleaner each year.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...leaner-in-2018

[Ecky]

I live in a state which has no fossil fuel power plants, in a city which is powered entirely by renewables, so energy here is as clean as you can get.

Unfortunately the math works out negatively (counting cost to me per mile) to drive a Leaf or Model 3 instead of my Insight, not taking into account thus far unknown battery lifespans (so I assumed infinite) and including all regular ICE maintenance into the cost per mile of the Insight.

I really want an EV, but frankly until cost per mile is equal, not even counting higher purchase cost, I don't think I can justify the change.

[redpoint5]

Vermont has among the highest electricity prices and has to buy a lot from other states since they are shutting down nuke plants.

[rmay635703]

What’s funny is even here in Wisconsin which has half the rates of Vermont it’s actually a wash or a small savings to generate all home electricity off a natural gas powered generator. The monthly electric connection fees alone pay for the maintenance and depreciation of the generator and the electricity generated is only about 2.5 cents a kwhr despite the low genset efficiency because the cost of gas is so low.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Vermont has among the highest electricity prices and has to buy a lot from other states since they are shutting down nuke plants.

Shutting down nuclear is short sighted, case of once it’s gone it’s gone , building infrastructure off the assumption of a permanent source of natural gas is poor planning
shutting down nuclear is even worse.

If anything we need more advanced nuclear like MSR Thorium and less fossil fuel plants.

The MSR plants can run off the waste other plants produce, also our medical industry has an ever growing need for special nuclear isotopes and these shutdowns close off the supply for these drugs, only a few nuclear plants are left that make the necessary compounds, once they close there will be no supply of materials for cancer drugs.

[Ecky]

I'm in agreement about nuclear. I haven't looked closely into why they're getting rid of Vermont Yankee, but I hope it wasn't just anti-nuclear sentiment.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

The Union of Concerned Scientists has a source-to-wheel study of EV's vs ICE cars, and the average is EV's get about 80MPGe+, and they get cleaner and cleaner each year.

But I get 70+ from my Insight, can go 700+ miles on a "charge", and refill it in minutes.

Seems like with the current bunch of EVs, if you want to get something with reasonable range, you have to go with a big, heavy Tesla or similar. (Or pay lots of money for a used Roadster...)

[RedDevil]

Hyundai Kona EV. 64 kWh and a lot cheaper than any Tesla yet.

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

The Union of Concerned Scientists has a source-to-wheel study of EV's vs ICE cars, and the average is EV's get about 80MPGe+, and they get cleaner and cleaner each year.[/IMG]

The UCS has a nice calculator on their site that can display the information for specific vehicles in your zip code. Where I live, I can't do better in any electric car than I do in my current hybrid for now.