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Old 01-24-2019, 10:50 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
Just a look at the renderings is enough to guestimate the build cost,on a dollars/lb basis.
The sketch was a Tesla Semi, turned into a straight truck, with a F150 in the bed. It was a joke.

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Your car was built inside a computer before any tooling was made,or an assembly line constructed.
. I’m well aware. I work for a manufacturer (In the plant for a new model launch today)

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All the automakers bought a Tesla and tore it apart to see what made it tick,and how to do end runs around patents.Design,tooling,and manufacture is reverse-engineered from the autopsy..
I know. My company did exactly that and I have full access to the report. However, tearing down a Tesla sedan is not much help for benchmarking a truck.

No established automaker is copying Tesla’s design, they are doing their own design, incorporating decades of high volume assembly knowledge that Tesla doesn’t have. The battery is an excellent example. Nobody is copying Tesla’s glued together non-serviceable battery design.

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Old 01-25-2019, 10:28 AM   #22 (permalink)
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. Iím well aware. I work for a manufacturer (In the plant for a new model launch today)
How'd the new model launch go?

Do you have a link you can share?
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Old 01-25-2019, 02:15 PM   #23 (permalink)
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All else being equal, ICE cannot match the power,torque,acceleration,handling,velocity,load,t owing,passing,or 'fuel economy' of an EV.
None of which are range. And if you want to increase range, you have to add more battery, which in addition to increasing costs, negatively impacts acceleration, handling, load & towing, passing, and fuel economy.
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Old 01-25-2019, 06:48 PM   #24 (permalink)
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How'd the new model launch go?

Do you have a link you can share?
The launch went very well. Technically this isn't a brand new model, it is introducing a new model into a new plant. We launched this truck in 2017 (2018 model year). This is the 3rd plant to produce the truck.

As for links: This is the 2020 model announced at the CES show. Level 2 autonomous driving, some big safety improvements, and a 5% boost in fuel economy.

A write up: https://www.trucknews.com/equipment/...ns/1003089390/

Video of new features:
https://vimeopro.com/cmdvideogroup/1...troitassurance

And a picture:
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Old 01-26-2019, 12:55 PM   #25 (permalink)
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None of which are range. And if you want to increase range, you have to add more battery, which in addition to increasing costs, negatively impacts acceleration, handling, load & towing, passing, and fuel economy.
Your correct.However,given that the truck can be refueled overnight at home,statistically,how much range do you actually need on a daily basis?
The Rivian is offering up to 400-miles range on a charge.Would that not satisfy most contractors?
The Great Wall Motors' Ora R1,is a 194-mile range EV,starting at $8,680.
This vehicle,just as with a Model T Ford,could be sold as a pickup variant,with very little development cost.Like a Chevy Chevelle/El Camino.Ford Falcon/Ranchero.
I helped on a $200,000 remodel in Lake Dallas.I drove my Civic.All the framing crew drove little ricers.Their boss had a pickup,but all the project materials were delivered to the job.He hardly ever left the job site.There was no driving to back and forth to HOME DEPOT or LOWE'S.
It was all local commuting.
I just don't think range is an issue.
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Old 01-27-2019, 03:02 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Range itself might not become such an issue as range-anxiety and the longer time to charge the batteries compared to filling a fuel tank. That's why I wouldn't hold my breath for a full-electric F-150 to become production-ready so soon. A serial hybrid with a microturbine powering the genset OTOH would make more sense, even though it might appeal more to fleet operators (who might eventually become able to trade "carbon credits") than to the average Joe. Even though the bragging rights are behind most vehicle choices, an average truck buyer is still too farther from becoming greenwashed to get a hybrid than a regular sedan buyer would be.
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Old 01-27-2019, 03:16 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
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However,given that the truck can be refueled overnight at home,statistically,how much range do you actually need on a daily basis?
That depends on your use case. As I said, there are a lot of potential applications where a ~200 mile range (or less) would work, but there are just as obviously ones where it would be inadequate. Nor is daily basis really the only criterion. For instance, back when I was working construction, we might spend weeks on a job site, driving the truck a few miles a day, but then have to move 500 miles or more to a new site, hauling a heavy trailer.
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Old 01-27-2019, 03:27 PM   #28 (permalink)
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That depends on your use case. As I said, there are a lot of potential applications where a ~200 mile range (or less) would work, but there are just as obviously ones where it would be inadequate.
When the TCO of each vehicle would prevent someone to get vehicles "specialized" to each task, relying solely on an EV with that range becomes out of question. Considering refuelling times for an ICE-powered car and the battery charging time for a comparable EV, some road trips could take nearly double the time on an EV because of stopovers to charge the batteries.


Quote:
Nor is daily basis really the only criterion. For instance, back when I was working construction, we might spend weeks on a job site, driving the truck a few miles a day, but then have to move 500 miles or more to a new site, hauling a heavy trailer.
Many people still get fooled to believe an EV would be perfect for them because of the daily basis, forgetting the flexibility in the operation of an ICE-powered vehicle for road trips either at work or vacations. When it's not so handy to rely on a bus, train or airplane to reach the destination and pick a rental car there, it's still hard to beat the convenience of an ICE-powered car.
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Old 01-27-2019, 05:31 PM   #29 (permalink)
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EV's solve all kind of problems people don't know they have. There will be mass adoption of EV's when people figure out these problems they don't know they have. See my video "PhD Hubris" posted below for the nature of some of these existential problems.

https://youtu.be/SUev0yAUGNc
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Old 01-27-2019, 05:47 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
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The people who care don't factor the price of gas into the calculus.
The people I know who own F150s or similar sure as hell do. They need a truck that they can depend on which is why the F150 is a perennial sales leader. It works, and when it doesn't there are 10,000 places in a 20 mile radius that can make it work again, and they're all in competition so they all know they have to do it cheap. Now, make that truck an EV. Boom.

Honestly I'd love to see it though. I think if Ford can make it rock solid, with enough range to get through 1.5 typical workdays, and maybe throw some kind of multi-10s-of-thousands-of-miles powertrain warranty, and toss in some incentives for at home (or at small/medium company HQ) recharging, then they might be able to change the game. Just like they did with aluminum body panels.

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