Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 


Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-28-2019, 09:52 AM   #31 (permalink)
JSH
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 578

City Slicker - '16 Chevy Spark EV
90 day: 128.6 mpg (US)

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
Last 3: 19.56 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 36.83 mpg (US)
Thanks: 14
Thanked 231 Times in 169 Posts
Why does every EV thread turn into a debate about how EV's won't work for every person or situation? Of course they don't. I don't know anyone that thinks they will work for everyone. However, even in current form, they would work for millions of people.

Most families in the USA have more than one car. Very few couples both commute more than 200 miles at the same time. Most families live in single family homes so charging at home is an option. One spouse driving an EV and the other a ICE is a combination that would work for millions of people.

  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
aerohead (01-30-2019), Frank Lee (02-03-2019)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 01-28-2019, 09:57 AM   #32 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 122

Boulevard - '09 Suzuki Boulevard C50

The Leaf - '17 Nissan Leaf SL

Outback - '16 Subaru Outback
Thanks: 51
Thanked 32 Times in 21 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Many people still get fooled to believe an EV would be perfect for them because of the daily basis, forgetting the flexibility in the operation of an ICE-powered vehicle for road trips either at work or vacations. When it's not so handy to rely on a bus, train or airplane to reach the destination and pick a rental car there, it's still hard to beat the convenience of an ICE-powered car.
When taking long trips, refueling an ICE car is not what takes so long, it is the bathroom break, figuring out what you want to drink, eat, etc...

And even though battery packs are getting bigger, quick charging is taking less and less time. Most people may not realize they would not be stopped any longer than with an ICE truck if it takes 20 minute charge time for 60-80% of a 400 mile range battery pack...

So, it might be 500 miles, at highway speed, that is 8 hours or more? so there is atleast one to two meals, probably another 2 stops for bathroom... And if the truck had a 300 to 400 mile range, assuming you start at 80%, that is maybe 1 to two stops for charging... if you make those during the meals, no extra time is 'lost'... but even if you bring all your own food and drinks and only stop for bathroom breaks, that is still hardly any more lose of time... This is assuming a readily available charger that can charge the vehicle to 60-80% in 20 minutes.

That is an issue currently, but as the major fuel supplying companies have all bought or developed their own charging business to be installed into their locations, but as time goes on that will go away.

I think that if you want even a faster dump of power in a shorter time for longer range, instead of a Range Extender, I would put in an ultra-capacitor. Dump power into it, then bleed it off to charge the battery.

It could also be used to take up regen.. I am sure slowing the much heavier loads a larger truck could be carrying/towing might (could?) generate more energy and exceed the desired duty cycle of a battery pack (but again, newer packs seem to be able to take power much faster). An ultra-capacitor could take the power, and use it either to help start the truck moving with its heavy load, or again just use it to charge the battery at a slower pace that is better for the battery pack.

As for the convenience of an ICE powered car, it was not so convenient during the gas shortages in the 70s in the US or other places that have had them since. Not sure how much longer OPEC and other such organizations can keep colluding to keep the price of crude and gas as low as it is.

RE: Servicing
The technology that a car/truck mechanic needs to learn that they do not already have to know is probably high voltage, battery tech, and maybe 3 phase power. Tires are the same, suspension is the same... windshield wipers are the same, brakes are the same... And a modern car mechanic already has to know how to deal with lots of electronics (touch screens, radar, cameras, and such were being put into ICE cars a decade or so now).

Just my thoughts and opinion on this.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ldjessee00 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (01-30-2019)
Old 01-28-2019, 10:23 AM   #33 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 122

Boulevard - '09 Suzuki Boulevard C50

The Leaf - '17 Nissan Leaf SL

Outback - '16 Subaru Outback
Thanks: 51
Thanked 32 Times in 21 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Why does every EV thread turn into a debate about how EV's won't work for every person or situation? Of course they don't. I don't know anyone that thinks they will work for everyone. However, even in current form, they would work for millions of people.

Most families in the USA have more than one car. Very few couples both commute more than 200 miles at the same time. Most families live in single family homes so charging at home is an option. One spouse driving an EV and the other a ICE is a combination that would work for millions of people.
I am in the situation right now (Nissan Leaf/Subaru Outback), but when I was living in apartments, that would not have worked, as I might have been able to afford a used Leaf, but with no real 'at home' charging solution, I would have been forced to charge only at charging stations...

Current trend is away from home ownership, but that has fluctuated over the last 60 years only by a few percentage, so I am not ready to say that will mean a big change, but 35% of the US population that do not own a home.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ldjessee00 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (01-30-2019)
Old 01-28-2019, 02:31 PM   #34 (permalink)
home of the odd vehicles
 
rmay635703's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere in WI
Posts: 2,951

Silver - '10 Chevy Cobalt XFE
Thanks: 261
Thanked 523 Times in 393 Posts
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/new-hal...osts-just-5700

Fords competitor has photos

Nothing like reaching for the cheapest way to compliance
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	5400B628-09AF-4700-B699-2BA4FDF4E95A.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	39.5 KB
ID:	25494  

Last edited by rmay635703; 01-30-2019 at 01:08 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rmay635703 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (01-30-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 12:47 AM   #35 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 7,085
Thanks: 0
Thanked 712 Times in 628 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Why does every EV thread turn into a debate about how EV's won't work for every person or situation? Of course they don't.
With all the political pressure against the ICE in a worldwide basis instead of focusing on real solutions such as biofuels, we always need to remind EVs are not the one-size-fits-all solution proposed by some.


Quote:
I don't know anyone that thinks they will work for everyone.
I already met some radical econazis who claim electric-assisted bicycles would serve as well as a car for nearly everyone. That's why sometimes I expect the worse from EV advocates...
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 01:23 PM   #36 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 858
Thanks: 157
Thanked 288 Times in 204 Posts
There will always be a few places ICEs will have an advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
The physics and thermodynamics seems to be stacked in the EV's favor.
Overall horsepower is kinda moot when you have the torque of an electric motor.
You're not going to out-pull it.
You won't out-accelerate an EV.
You won't beat their center of gravity
You can't win on aerodynamics.
Rolling resistance is a wash.
All-wheel-drive /torque-vectoring is already off-the-shelf EV technology.
A flat floor is a hard act to follow.Roomier inside.Better space utilization.
Noise level.
Zero fuel price volatility
Refuel at home.
Next year is Tesla's 600-mile range vehicle.They have megawatt packs now.
Rivian is talking 500-miles of range if memory serves me.
With 1/3rd the BSFC of ICE,there's not a diesel or gas truck that can touch the towing mpg'e of an EV.
You won't have to pull the cab off the chassis to do a tuneup as with ICE trucks nowadays.
No foreign fuel.Whose the patriot now?
Zero-carbon capability.Try that with pistons!
It's an interesting development
Medium and heavy duty pickups that hotshot time sensitive loads come to mind. Batteries are chemistry limited. Sure, lose some of your payload to get yourself a 500 mile towing range. That's fine for contractors who put around a work site drinking coffee and surfing their tablets. Some of us idle the diesel with a 6000 watt inverter running a work crew all day and into the night. Then we pull the 20,000 lb trailer to grab another piece of machinery to bring back to the shop 200 miles away. Of course, this is in the middle of the Mojave desert. Not a charging station in sight.

I'll take my concentrated energy in a jug.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RustyLugNut For This Useful Post:
aerohead (01-30-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 03:10 PM   #37 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,191
Thanks: 223
Thanked 799 Times in 586 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Why does every EV thread turn into a debate about how EV's won't work for every person or situation? Of course they don't.
Because some people post nonsense about how EV pickups would be comparable in range to ICE ones.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 07:25 PM   #38 (permalink)
Growin a stash
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 491
Thanks: 266
Thanked 160 Times in 119 Posts
My guess is, Ford is just starting on the design of this truck. They had to make the announcement now, though, because Rivian was making them look silly.
__________________


2015 Nissan Leaf S, 161 mpge
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2019, 12:39 PM   #39 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Saskatoon, canada
Posts: 1,381

ChargE (not yet running) - '92 Mazda MX6 LX
90 day: 33.89 mpg (US)

Ford Prefect - '18 Ford F150 XLT XTR
Thanks: 713
Thanked 497 Times in 399 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ME_Andy View Post
My guess is, Ford is just starting on the design of this truck. They had to make the announcement now, though, because Rivian was making them look silly.
GM, Ford, Dodge ... all of them had started on the road to electric by getting their auxilliary systems on electric. Power steering, water pump, Air Conditioning, and all of the rest of the stuff that used to run off the serpentine belt that was driven by the engine.

I think they have most of that stuff figured out. Now they need to do the driveline, figure out how the heat will work .. how the cooling and heating works for the battery packs, cabin heat, etc, and how to fit the batteries, controllers, et al into a serviceable package.

I don't think any of the big 3's all-electric designs will be new ground-up designs. I believe that they will leverage existing investments in body panels, suspension, dash, etc. That's how their accountants, auditors, and management think. So the first ones will have a range problem and perhaps some access challenges, restrictions on battery packaging and design .. pretty standard stuff.

To be competitive ... they will need designs that are ground-up, all electric, starting-with-the-frame .. to fit everything where it fits best and makes the truck the best they can make it. But that's only my opinion
__________________
In THEORY there is no difference between Theory and Practice
In PRACTICE there IS!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2019, 01:11 PM   #40 (permalink)
home of the odd vehicles
 
rmay635703's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere in WI
Posts: 2,951

Silver - '10 Chevy Cobalt XFE
Thanks: 261
Thanked 523 Times in 393 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by thingstodo View Post
GM, Ford, Dodge ... all of them had started on the

To be competitive ... they will need designs that are ground-up, all electric, starting-with-the-frame .. to fit everything where it fits best and makes the truck the best they can make it. But that's only my opinion
In other words a VW rabbit pickup with AWD on demand, high strength steel unibody, belly pan and a 1 ton rating or better

The reason nobody makes an electric pickup is just how terrible the efficiency can be

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com