FORD to follow TOYOTA

[Piotrsko]

Hard to split lanes, go through skinny dead end street bollards and other restrictions in a three wheeled vehicle, not to mention wheelie control and sliding, dragging a foot doesn't help

[y2kbug]

I dont want an electric suv. Give me an economical and durable subcompact and i'd be more interested in new cars

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by y2kbug

I dont want an electric suv. Give me an economical and durable subcompact and i'd be more interested in new cars

This was supposed to be Elon Musk's ultimate goal. A 'Corolla-killer' BEV, with essentially the same exterior dimensions, 'performance', and price.
BYD is already selling a $10,000 new BEV in this segment.
DJT will 'tariff' it to $20,000 id elected.

[freebeard]

Rivian plant is on fire right now , in Normal IL

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by y2kbug

I dont want an electric suv. Give me an economical and durable subcompact and i'd be more interested in new cars

Seems like most safety and emission regulations have been all rigged up in order to make subcompacts unaffordable at all. Nowadays even some small cars available in countries such as mine are wider and longer than what some models one class above used to be around 15 to 20 years ago.

[JSH]

They might have a bit of breathing room but hybrids aren't a long term plan. Toyota can ignore EVs because they have the largest pool of ZEV credits and have a rather fuel efficient fleet for CARB. Vehicles like the 2025 Camry Hybrid meet 2033 EPA CAFE requirement today so Toyota is booking credits for every Camry they sell now that the Camry is 100% hybrid

Ford doesn't have a stack of ZEV credits and a crazy portion of their sales are F-Series trucks. Maybe they just plan spread the $5,000 fine for every ZEV they miss into the cost of their Super Duty trucks. That seems to be what they are doing with CARB 2024 because a Powerstroke costs the same in EPA and CARB states but those CARB diesels are pricy. (EPA will be the same as CARB in 2027 for medium and light duty vehicles)

Either way this reality remains and the next presidential election won't change it

[Hersbird]

I would have and still would today buy a Lightning at the original advertised MSRP of $40k for the pro. I'd even pay a reasonable inflation amount for 2 years, maybe 3-4% per year so $43,264. That also assumes it qualifies for the tax credit of $7,500 it did initially when revealed. So $35,764 plus $2095 delivery, so $37,859. I'd pay a $100 document fee and don't have sales tax so out the door $37,959. For that price I get a nice awd crew cab pickup with a good around town range and enough to tow my popup a few hours away on a weekend. Bonus it can power the off grid campsite some once there assuming I left range to return.

But they aren't even that inexpensive used from the people who did buy one at $32,500 new after the credit. They are $48k used and $55,500 new with tax credit. A crew cab 4x4 ICE version with similar features new is a good $10,000 less.

So I say it's still the price. If they get to the point where they cost less as originally spun to consumers, they will sell, but there isn't enough better about them to command $10,000 more.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by JSH

Ford doesn't have a stack of ZEV credits and a crazy portion of their sales are F-Series trucks. Maybe they just plan spread the $5,000 fine for every ZEV they miss into the cost of their Super Duty trucks. That seems to be what they are doing with CARB 2024 because a Powerstroke costs the same in EPA and CARB states but those CARB diesels are pricy.

Wasn't Ford, as it attempts to become a "specialized" commercial vehicle manufacturer, supposed to be safer from such fines?

[wax87]

All I know is that I am loving my Ford Maverick Hybrid

[JSH]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Wasn't Ford, as it attempts to become a "specialized" commercial vehicle manufacturer, supposed to be safer from such fines?

Commercial vehicles have both steadily increasing fuel efficiency targets and a CARB percentage of sales ZEV mandate. Then there is also CARB 2024 / EPA 2027 which applies to medium and heavy duty vehicles.

CARB has designed their regulations so companies can't just ignore emission regulations by selling a customer a F250 instead of a F150.