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Old 09-05-2015, 10:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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"You need to add extra parts"
Wrong.
"It only works in stop and go"
Wrong
"It will leak oil all over the place'
Wrong

http://archive.epa.gov/otaq/technolo.../420r04002.pdf

It might help to read some information on the development over a decade ago, but the doubters won't.

It might help to read about water based hydraulic fluid development that you can actually drink (that's right doubters, bio degradable and non toxic), but then again the same old tired rubbish will dilute anyone's search for real information.

I'm surprised after being here for over 5 years that there is still so much lack of knowledge being posted in this forum on this topic. It's depressing when the real opportunities are dismissed by ignorance.

I'll just quote a statement by Charles Gray, the EPA's head man about the effect on the auto industry of properly developed hydraulic hybrids.

"The adoption of this technology will have an effect as significant as the Fords implementation of the assembly line".

regards
mech


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Old 09-05-2015, 10:11 PM   #12 (permalink)
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They were at 78% wheel to wheel a decade ago. Under the same test parameter a gas electric hybrid was at less than 33 %.

Documented, tested, proven.

The weakest link in the system was the use of a bent axes pump, a design going back to WW2. The call was made for a "clean sheet of paper" design for the basic pump-motor capable of much higher efficiencies that the bent axes driving through a standard type differential where pump speeds of 3k rpm were necessary.

Dumping the differential and driving the wheels directly was the solution, with individual drive efficiency approaching 97%.

Accumulators at 99%

This thread will die like many others, overwhelmed by the noise of lack of knowledge.

Test mules were built, 3800 pound 5 passenger vehicles with a 1.9 liter diesel engine producing 80 mpg combined on epa cycles.

Passenger vehicles, not garbage trucks.

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mech
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I have 2 questions.

How are you going to make a vehicle a hydraulic hybrid with out adding more parts?
How is the hydraulic hybrid going to increase fuel economy on the highway?

I have built hydraulic systems that use water. Only problem is everything has to be plastic, stainless steel or brass.

Anything said by anyone at the EPA should be viewed with skepticism.
All the years I worked for the government the only constant I observed was incompetence and stupidity at all ranks, all levels and in all departments.
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Old 09-06-2015, 06:42 AM   #14 (permalink)
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How many parts are there in your complete powertrain, complete induction system, and complete braking system? Every single part.

Now throw them away, especially that leaking sieve of a hydraulic braking system, oh yes also that other leaking sieve of a power steering system, as well as the starter.

Lets just guess, 25-30% of the total vehicle parts count, eliminated. 1000, 1500, 2000 individually manufactured parts?

Complete power train means, from the flywheel or flex plate to the wheel. Flywheel, clutch assembly with all control linkages, transmission, propshaft, differential, half shafts, every single part gone.

And actually READ the linked document that I read at least twice a decade ago.

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mech
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Old 09-06-2015, 05:57 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Then it would be a totally hydrostatic drive instead of a hydraulic hybrid setup. Well, would be nice to try it with a mini gas turbine arranged in a turboshaft layout to drive the hydraulic pump, as gas turbines also usually have fewer moving parts.
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Old 09-06-2015, 06:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally conceived as an engine that became a flywheel then back to an engine, storing energy in it's own mass. Like the old toy flywheel cars in some aspects, but a self energizing flywheel. Also no reciprocating parts like a turbine but with the advantage of a sealed combustion chamber with low rpms.

Maybe it needs a "NEW" name

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Old 09-06-2015, 06:17 PM   #17 (permalink)
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The only thing that comes across my mind when you mention no reciprocating parts and a sealed combustion chamber are Wankel engines.
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Old 09-06-2015, 11:37 PM   #18 (permalink)
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If you want to replace your transmission with a much less efficient hydrostatic drive be my guest.
Only problem is these pumps and motors are also full of moving parts.
A fixed displacement pump could be used at the cost of efficiency.
A varrible displacement multiple piston pump that could put out around 100 horse power worth of fluid power costs at least $32,000 and weighs at least 300 pounds. I know because I have replaced a few over the years.
Then take an equally large and heavy hydraulic motor that costs, I am going to guess around $10,000 and let me know how much money this new less efficient hydraulic drive line is saving.
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Old 09-07-2015, 09:04 AM   #19 (permalink)
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http://www.ups.com/content/sg/en/abo...hicles_sg.html

UPS has ordered more in 2012. Do you think that means dead end technology?

http://www.wired.com/2012/10/ups-hydraulic-hybrids/

Why would any idiot continue adopting useless technology?
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Old 09-07-2015, 09:11 AM   #20 (permalink)
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And don't give me the garbage truck analogy, it's crap.

Do you know the gross weight of a ups truck? Compared to a 1 ton passenger vehicle.

Consider that ups has one of the most efficient package delivery vehicles in existence, when you start to denigrate a 30+% improvement in economy.

And for those with "green" agendas, a 40% reduction in pollution.

regards
mech

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